Reverse Polarity

 
 
 
 
 
 
wanderingaimlessly
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Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #1
Hi

First post to the forum and apologies if this is in the wrong section but new to the scene and have bought a vw t4 camper. I just got an adapter to allow hook up to the house mains for charging and maintaining the leisure battery but when i plug in the camper the reverse polarity light comes on in the electric supply unit.

I have googled this and I have a small understanding of reverse polarity but now I am more confused due to the posts on google and other posts about having to bring along adapters for continental travel.

Anyone got any advice for what I need for hooking up to the house mains for battery maintainence and for continental travel which we are planning for september???

Thanks in advance.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #2
You need to check the wires in the lead, make sure the brown is going to L and the blue is going to N, if you are not confident bring it to an Electrician to be on the safe side,


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #3
I agree with the above post check the wiring also who did you get your camper of ,go back to them and ask did they have the same problem if you bought it of a dealer take it back and get him to repair the problem because I'm sure you spent a lot of money buying your first camper


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #4
Sounds like a lead problem.
Van needs checking with a lead that is known to be correct to eliminate it.
Reverse polarity is common on European sites, electricians in France do not even check polarity !
I've an adaptor that corrects it and can sort one for you if you need it.
Ironically enough, reverse polarity won't cause any inherent issues, polarity doesn't matter on AC voltage, it switches +/- 50 times a second anyway.
Some people believe the RCD/ELCB won't trip on a short.... it will because it is measuring "leak to earth" ..... however I do correct it if it the light comes on in the van.

Where in Mayo are you, I'm in Westport this weekend and will check it for you if required.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #5
Firstly I'm NOT an electrician.
My understanding based on what I have read is that reverse polarity makes the live neutral and neutral live and some people are quite happy with this an hook up accordingly with reversing the reverse. I gather though that when you turn a light (for example) off on the switch there will still be a live current going to the light and this may lead to issues if you have to work on the light.
So for me I don't take any chances if I test and find reverse polarity I use an adaptor to un reverse it.
The tester is basically a plug which has 3 lights if all is correct and another number of lights if it is reverse polarity, it costs a couple of quid off eBay. The adaptor is a three pin to three pin again a few quid of eBay or you can by a complete set which has the plugs for some older French/Spanish etc sockets 2 pin which feed into a standard 3 pin euro connector.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #6
Quote by JJF

Sounds like a lead problem.
Van needs checking with a lead that is known to be correct to eliminate it.
Reverse polarity is common on European sites, electricians in France do not even check polarity !
I've an adaptor that corrects it and can sort one for you if you need it.
Ironically enough, reverse polarity won't cause any inherent issues, polarity doesn't matter on AC voltage, it switches +/- 50 times a second anyway.
Some people believe the RCD/ELCB won't trip on a short.... it will because it is measuring "leak to earth" ..... however I do correct it if it the light comes on in the van.

Where in Mayo are you, I'm in Westport this weekend and will check it for you if required.


Thanks for the info, Im based in Castlebar but dont wanna be wasting anyones time when they are on a weekend away. Westport will be jammers this weekend..... Would a set like this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-Continental-Caravan-Camping-Mains-Hook-Up-Reverse-Polarity-Adapter-Set-4-/351051704230?hash=item51bc4fe7a6:g:HiYAAOxyOM5RdC4K) be worth getting my hands on???

I will check with the guy I bought it from and have a look at the wiring as well.

Thanks.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #7
Yes, that will do the trick and has the EU plug too for some sites that use it in France.
A reverse polarity adaptor can be made for less than £10.

Jamie, you're correct. The light fittings can remain live in a reverse polarity condition, not really an issue in French property as they use twin pole switches (break both live & neutral) but definitely an issue in U.K. Wired vans/houses. Best correcting it just to be safe and give peace of mind.

No problem if you want it checked over the weekend, simple test and simple repair I should think.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #8
Quote by JJF

Yes, that will do the trick and has the EU plug too for some sites that use it in France.
A reverse polarity adaptor can be made for less than £10.

Jamie, you're correct. The light fittings can remain live in a reverse polarity condition, not really an issue in French property as they use twin pole switches (break both live & neutral) but definitely an issue in U.K. Wired vans/houses. Best correcting it just to be safe and give peace of mind.

No problem if you want it checked over the weekend, simple test and simple repair I should think.


pm sent


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #9
Aren't you glad you joined the craic where else would you get the info and the help good luck hope you get it sorted


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #10
Quote by JJF

Sounds like a lead problem.
Van needs checking with a lead that is known to be correct to eliminate it.
Reverse polarity is common on European sites, electricians in France do not even check polarity !
I've an adaptor that corrects it and can sort one for you if you need it.
Ironically enough, reverse polarity won't cause any inherent issues, polarity doesn't matter on AC voltage, it switches +/- 50 times a second anyway.
Some people believe the RCD/ELCB won't trip on a short.... it will because it is measuring "leak to earth" ..... however I do correct it if it the light comes on in the van.

Where in Mayo are you, I'm in Westport this weekend and will check it for you if required.


Not entirely correct!
An RCD/ELCB has no short circuit protection! It protects against leakage to earth.
RCD/ELCB will not trip on a short circuit if the short is between Phase & Neutral.
It will only trip if the short is between Neutral & Earth or Phase and earth.
In either of these cases it is the fault current going to earth that creates the trip.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #11
Agreed.
But it doesn't matter if it's neutral or positive short to earth..... it will trip on either.
A short circuit between pos/neutral is the same, regardless of polarity.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #12
Hi there. I am an electrician and to be honest I wouldn't be happy with reverse polarity coming into my camper for a myriad of different reasons. It is a simple fix, as mentioned earlier, it's more than likely in the lead. Most campers have a rcbo on the incoming mains. While it looks similar to an rcd, it is actually an mcb and an rcd combined unit. Basically the best of both worlds. Most will work with reversed polarity, but there are a few that won't. If it's factory wired the polarity reversal maybe not as important but with a home wired one it could have serious implications in the event of a secondary fault on the system. I'd play it safe and sort it out. If you are stuck give me a shout and I'll talk you through it
Dve


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #13
Quote by Daffysparks

Hi there. I am an electrician and to be honest I wouldn't be happy with reverse polarity coming into my camper for a myriad of different reasons. It is a simple fix, as mentioned earlier, it's more than likely in the lead. Most campers have a rcbo on the incoming mains. While it looks similar to an rcd, it is actually an mcb and an rcd combined unit. Basically the best of both worlds. Most will work with reversed polarity, but there are a few that won't. If it's factory wired the polarity reversal maybe not as important but with a home wired one it could have serious implications in the event of a secondary fault on the system. I'd play it safe and sort it out. If you are stuck give me a shout and I'll talk you through it
Dve


Sorry to disagree Daffysparks but I cannot see why a Factory wired reverse Polarity could possibly be any safer than a home wired reverse Polarity??

As you say an RCBO is a combined RCD/MCB which gives both earth leakage and short circuit + overload protection. However an ELCB/RCD gives only earth leakage protection and will not trip on phase to neutral short circuit or overload.
It is very easy for someone that has to replace an RCBO, perhaps in a Camper, to ask for an RCD/ELCB instead of RCBO not realising that they are not the same and could in the event of a fault have serious consequences.
They both look very much alike but are in essence very different.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 11.05.2017  ·  #14
Thanks to everyone for their input. I have a lot to learn yet. all this electrics stuff is double dutch to me. JJF has kindly offered to meet me and sort out the issue at the weekend.
I can see joining this forum will be of great help. Cheers to you all.


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Re: Reverse Polarity

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Posted: 12.05.2017  ·  #15
Erasmus I guess I didn't make my point very well. I meant that a factory wired camper might have a better chance of not being damaged by reverse polarity than a home wired one, not that it is any safer. A lot of factory built psu or not polarity sensitive but a lot of over the counter ones are. The main thing is that he is getting the issue sorted and so removing any danger to himself or his camper


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