Adding a hitch to my MH

 
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Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 07.03.2018  ·  #1
Good day folks!

Rami here with yet another question for your expert minds :)

I'm considering adding either an Enduro or Trials bike to my stable, but since neither would be road legal, I need to be able to carry them around with either my car or the MH.

Car is handy enough, so no worries there but I would rather have the MH as that's my bargaining chip to take the wife and pooches with me and I can mask my ride out as a family day :D (see what I did there??)

Anyhow... my problem with the MH is that it doesn't have a received and for what I saw, there's no frame to mount to, as my MH arse extends beyond the frame for quite a bit.

Has any of ye made the extension for a hitch receiver? Is it much work involved (expensive) ?

Would it be safe to then mount a bike carrier to potentially carry a 100kg bike around?


I would love to hear(read) your thoughts and recommendations please!

Cheers,
Rami

PD: Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 07.03.2018  ·  #2
I can’t help with the mounting, but make sure you consider how the 100kg plus weight of carrier will affect the load on your back axle. A long rear overhang will cause a leverage beyond the pure weight of the equipment and could cause problems either by overloading the rear axle or lightening the front with potential for steering and grip if front wheel drive.

There is a formula for working this out, you should be able to google it as it is a question that pops up from time to time. I will see if I can find it later this evening.

Hope it works out successfully for you.

Davy
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 07.03.2018  ·  #3
Thanks bud, I have indeed been googling around but I'm most likely not putting the correct criteria. I'm not finding much other than adds for hitchs that don't help me at all.

It is a considerable amount of weight alright and thus why my question here. Worse case scenario I might have to consider a small trailer, but even with that I'll still have to do a subframe extension to get the hitch received. This wont be ideal as I don't have much more room at home for a trailer, but I guess if the other method is a no-go I'll have to make arrangements for a small trailer.

If you can pass that info, I would greatly appreciate it!

Cheers,
Rami
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 07.03.2018  ·  #4
Quote by RTV

Thanks bud, I have indeed been googling around but I'm most likely not putting the correct criteria. I'm not finding much other than adds for hitchs that don't help me at all.

It is a considerable amount of weight alright and thus why my question here. Worse case scenario I might have to consider a small trailer, but even with that I'll still have to do a subframe extension to get the hitch received. This wont be ideal as I don't have much more room at home for a trailer, but I guess if the other method is a no-go I'll have to make arrangements for a small trailer.

If you can pass that info, I would greatly appreciate it!

Cheers,
Rami


your heading is probably where the problem is . Trunk / booth . this wording gets you to a page full of Tow Bar stuff.

fitting a tow bar on to a motorhome . see if this helps.
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 07.03.2018  ·  #5
If you check this link it will give you an option of the firm supplying figures.

http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/motorhome_axle_loads.html

Also here is the text of a person using a formula to work out the potential weight of scooter and rack they might carry.

“I have now been to the weigh bridge with the Kontiki. It was nearly full of fuel had some of our bits and pieces on and only half full of water. Both my wife and I were sat in the front when it was weighed. I weigh near enough 20st and M is 8st.

The results were as follows

Total Vehicle weight = 3040
Front Axle = 1600
Rear = 1440

According to the plates under the bonnet the max weights allowed are as follows

Total Max vehicle weight = 3400
Front Axle = 1650
Rear = 1750

So we are already somewhere near. Using the formulas on the site and in Practical Motorhome I calculate the following

The overhang is 1700mm and the wheelbase is 4300. The scooter and rack will weigh 150kg, IF you divide 1700mm by 4300 and x that by the weight of the scooter (150) that = 59KG extra weight on top of the rack and scooter which means a total extra weight of 209kg on the back axle which would take it to 1649kg.

This however also reduces the front load down to 1541kg leaving a spare 109 kg at the front and 101 at the back or 210 KG to play with.

Can someone have a look at my figures and formulas and let me know what you think please? It doesn’t leave much left and I wanted to put a dingy and outboard in which will weigh around 100-120 KG. We will travel light anyway and it was my intention never to haul a full tank of water around although I guess sometimes this will not be possible. I think if I get some positive feedback I am going to go for a scooter rack and bike not exceeding 150KG.”

Hopefully it will give some guidance. I will see what else I can turn up.

Davy
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 07.03.2018  ·  #6
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 08.03.2018  ·  #7
I fitted a towbar to our chausson two years ago. Like Rami the coach build chassis rails were too short. After seen a towbar which was fitted by a high profile specialist company, which I thought was expensive crap, I decided to fabricate my own. Since I work at truck bodybuilding, I got to avail of the workshop facilities but still there was over 10 hours of labour involved. Afterwards I got the towbar certified and the towing capacity rated. Since our MH is Transit based, the running mass allowed on the trailer is 1000kgs, Ford specifications, but the nose weight, weight on the towball is only 30kgs. This doesn't bother us, as we are only towing a small car trailer with kayaks in it. The low nose weight would cause problems for a motorbike carrier.
If you look in the service review section, you will find a post for an automotive engineer, who can answer your questions .
Malcolm
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 08.03.2018  ·  #8
Excellent info lads, much appreciated. I guess I should try to find a scale, load her up as we normally would and see where we are at the moment.

I also definitely need to get together with a friend of mine that does car restorations and would know more about frame work and see what he thinks and if it's doable for a reasonable price.

I will definitely wont be spending crazy money on my poor old camper. The other consideration to make which would be much more feasible is to make the extension, put a hitch receiver and do a trailer. Then it would be a matter of finding a trailer small enough that I can put upright somewhere on the side of the house and secure it with a ground anchor or something like that.

Cheers lads, much appreciated!
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #9
Anything is possible I guess!

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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #10
LOL

Well.... if I do a 1:2 scale, I should be golden :P
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #11
Think he might be breaking the rear overhang rule
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #12
The max rear overhang is 3 metres from the centre on the rear axel. This is case with trucks and trailers, so I'm assuming that it is the same for MH.
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #13
Sorry to hijack the thread,

Malcolm do you know whats overhang rule with a car trailer and Kayaks overhanging by a few foot?

I have the tape out and measuring,
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #14
Would suggest you have a chat with your test centre before having one fitted.
I have to remove by ballhitch every time I have it tested otherwise I need an enginers report to say it is fitted correctly and safe to tow .
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #15
I still have to get my head around the photo upload here, but I will try to explain instead.
For commercial vehicles is law is clear but for private or leisure vehicle, I am not sure but I'll explain the commercial stuff.
A ridged truck, bus etc must not exceed 12 metres in length. A ridged truck or bus with a trailer must not exceed 18.5 metres in length.
For goods been carried on a truck or a trailer are allowed to overhang the end of body by less than 3 metres. However there is one requirement to be met, the rear lights must be within one metre of the end of the load.
Now back to car trailers and kayaks. Our car trailer is 1.5 metre long body so the 2.4 metre single kayaks overhangs by 1.3 metres pass the lights, so my solutions is to hang a white rear light board from the end of the kayaks and use this as my main trailer lights. All was going well until we purchased a 3.2 metre double kayak. Since the trailer had a ladder rack and using a temporary drawbar extension the double kayak now sits on the ladder rack with 0.8 metre sitting over the draw bar. Now the trailer loaded with kayaks is 4 metres in total length behind the MH.
The drawbar also solved a different problem.
A towball on a car is approximately 400mm high from the ground while a jeep, van or a MH is nearer to 500 mm from the ground. The drawbar extension is cranked to allow for the height difference.
On amazon, I purchased a bag version of a roof box for a car for about 40 quid. This goes into the body of the trailer with the life jackets, wetsuits, etc.
I hope that answers Mad Max.
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #16
Happy days, Thanks for that Malcolm.

Apologies again for hijacking the thread
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #17
Quote by Breeze

Would suggest you have a chat with your test centre before having one fitted.
I have to remove by ballhitch every time I have it tested otherwise I need an enginers report to say it is fitted correctly and safe to tow .

You are right about the engineers report and any welding needs to be certified as well. The steel used in the fabrication was certified by the supplier. Since I am a coded welder and I used a work related auto engineer to certify everything, the cost was very lean for me.
Interesting in the document of certification, the auto engineer included his qualifications and a reference of his profession indemnity insurance.
Any auto modifications are very complicated now since type approval came in.
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #18
Quote by Thorn123

The max rear overhang is 3 metres from the centre on the rear axel. This is case with trucks and trailers, so I'm assuming that it is the same for MH.
Malcolm


At one stage it was 60% of the wheelbase, not sure if this still applies though.
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #19
It kinda of still applies Pat. It all depends on the vehicle type, 3 metre overhang on a 8×4 flatbed verses a 3 metre overhang on a Transit flat bed.
Trailer Win is the design software used to calculate the optimum weight and lenght for vehicles.
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 09.03.2018  ·  #20
Chausson, I remember reading something similar in one of the Motorcaravan books years ago. Just not sure of the percentage
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 12.03.2018  ·  #21
Well... after a bit more research I found what I need exactly:

http://www.al-ko.co.uk/assets/…ge0014.pdf

The Alko MT001 frame extension does the job precisely. Sent a few emails around and they're unfortunately quite expensive at about 1k pounds. That will be about +10% of the cost of the whole van so probably not a viable option, and that's not even adding a hitch+trailer or hitch+bike carrier which would add even more money to it...

I'll wait for a few more quotes to see if they're any better but not looking good at the moment. I think I'll rather wait for the time when we upgrade the van and then consider having one with hitching capabilities or even a garage.

Shame that I didn't consider this at the time of purchase but "hey"... that's how we learn, can't fault my MH anyways.

I could probably do it myself with a buddy of mine, but all the cert process and validation seems like a little bit of a headache and a potential issue at the time to pass the test.


So yeah, I'll look into it a little bit more but I think I'm getting closer to abandoning the idea.


Thank you folks for all your input, it's much appreciated!
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 12.03.2018  ·  #22
Don't abandon your idea just yet.
The certifying of towbars is a relatively new thing for doe testing. It is needed when the orginal manufacturers sticker or plate becomes unreadable or falls off.
I think that it worth to drop into your local test centre and make an enquiry with a smile.
Doe test centres are privately owned and usually have a garage business attached. They also advertise other services in their waiting room, like a local fabrication company or a local auto engineers for crash repairs, etc.
I think that it's worth a shot.
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 12.03.2018  ·  #23
Quote by Thorn123

Don't abandon your idea just yet.
The certifying of towbars is a relatively new thing for doe testing. It is needed when the orginal manufacturers sticker or plate becomes unreadable or falls off.
I think that it worth to drop into your local test centre and make an enquiry with a smile.
Doe test centres are privately owned and usually have a garage business attached. They also advertise other services in their waiting room, like a local fabrication company or a local auto engineers for crash repairs, etc.
I think that it's worth a shot.
Malcolm


Thanks bud!

I think that if I go to a shop to have it custom made/certified, it'll probably be either the same money or even more expensive than buying the mass manufactured one, and it's difficult to invest about 2k euro in accessories on a 9/10k van just to be able to play around with a bike.

I'll probably wait until May when I have to do the test and see where I stand, it's the first test that I'm doing with my MH. I know I have to do a few jobs already before hand, so I'll see in what shape I'm at and take if from there, possibly query about the possibility of doing such things as you suggested.

Cheers,
Rami
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Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 12.03.2018  ·  #24
Rami. Did you thing of putting a wanted add in some of the sales sites DoneDeal, Adverts , Gumtree ?
I'm sure there are people going around in Motorhomes fitted with tow bars , that were fitted when they bought them and will never use them.
You have the manufacturers spec , it might be worth a try , someone may need a few quid , you never know.
Saw this on DoneDeal.
Motorhome Tow Bar Came off Peugeot Boxer Autocruise Starburst May Fit Others
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 12.03.2018  ·  #25
Quote by sprinter

Rami. Did you thing of putting a wanted add in some of the sales sites DoneDeal, Adverts , Gumtree ?
I'm sure there are people going around in Motorhomes fitted with tow bars , that were fitted when they bought them and will never use them.
You have the manufacturers spec , it might be worth a try , someone may need a few quid , you never know.
Saw this on DoneDeal.
Motorhome Tow Bar Came off Peugeot Boxer Autocruise Starburst May Fit Others


Not a bad idea at all, and yes I've been looking around but since it's quite specific to my model of MH I'll say that chances are pretty slim. But I'll keep me eyes open for an opportunity...

Percs of having a really van I guess :)
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Posted: 12.03.2018  ·  #26
Quote by RTV

Quote by sprinter

Rami. Did you thing of putting a wanted add in some of the sales sites DoneDeal, Adverts , Gumtree ?
I'm sure there are people going around in Motorhomes fitted with tow bars , that were fitted when they bought them and will never use them.
You have the manufacturers spec , it might be worth a try , someone may need a few quid , you never know.
Saw this on DoneDeal.
Motorhome Tow Bar Came off Peugeot Boxer Autocruise Starburst May Fit Others


Not a bad idea at all, and yes I've been looking around but since it's quite specific to my model of MH I'll say that chances are pretty slim. But I'll keep me eyes open for an opportunity...

Percs of having a really van I guess :)

The guy advertising this one is from a boxer also , ( Motorhome Tow Bar Came off Peugeot Boxer Autocruise Starburst May Fit Others ) , why don't you ask him to give you all the detail measurements . I just had a look and he has added some details
Dimensions of the main frame.
Width 115 cm.
Depth 80 cm.
Frame bolts onto chassis with four bolts on each side.
Frame has wind down stabiliser legs on each side.
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Re: Adding a hitch to my MH

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Posted: 13.03.2018  ·  #27
But it's a 2005, completely different frame than mine, that's probably based on the x250 frame and mine is the 230. By the way the bolts are done, I can tell straight away that it wont fit my van unfortunately, so I won't even bother your man there :)
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Posted: 13.03.2018  ·  #28
Quote by RTV

But it's a 2005, completely different frame than mine, that's probably based on the x250 frame and mine is the 230. By the way the bolts are done, I can tell straight away that it wont fit my van unfortunately, so I won't even bother your man there :)


Have you looked at Watling Engineers ( tow bars manufacturers ) UK
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Posted: 13.03.2018  ·  #29
Yes sir I did, reached out to them and a few others and that's how I came up with the quotes of +1k sterling not including the actual rack or trailer...

So yeah, I'm waiting from a few others to come back to me and some others asked some measurements that I need to take, but in general they're on the same ballpark.
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Posted: 15.03.2018  ·  #30
I'm going to try to upload a few photos of our hitch.
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Posted: 16.03.2018  ·  #31
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Posted: 16.03.2018  ·  #32
Thank you folks! I haven't done much else in regards of this project, I definitely need to get down there and start taking some measurements...

Comparing to Thorn's pics there, our frame is much further back... but again, I need to get down there and see what's the measurements and see if it's even possible to do anything.

I'll see if I can do anything about this next week.
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