Sudden water loss

 
 
 
 
 
 
TommyS
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Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #1
The van, not me. We were moving one resort to the other and noticed the heater went cold. As we were negotiating tight hairpins going down the mountain I didn't check until we were down. The van went into limp mode and when I checked the expansion tank it was empty. I put about 6/7 litres of water in and everything seems ok now. When I filled it and let the engine run there was no sign of a leak.
I'm thinking there might have been an airlock or the release valve on the top of the header tank was faulty and let the water out. It seems a lot of water to refill.

Ducato 2003 2.8jtd

Any thoughts?


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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #2
Keep a tight eye on it Tommy.
The heater going cold is a sign it’s lost water.
6 litres is almost the entire cooling system capacity so it’s a considerable loss.

Any miss in the engine?
Hard to start?
Smoke?
Above can signal a head gasket problem although the 2.8 was never given to that issue.

It’s hard to detect a leak sometimes without pressurising the system with the proper gear.

Water pump springs to mind, also the heat exchanger behind the oil filter, split hose, expansion bottle cap, split somewhere …. but that’s really more a guess without seeing it although it would be visible if it’s that big a leak.


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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #3
Check the oil, if it's gone white it means a head gasket blow leaving water into the oil.
Coming down from the Sierra Nevada this time last year my engine went cold too due to no fuel being burnt (on over-run) and a very cold ambient temperature, but no water loss.
How long is it since the water level was checked, maybe it just went low enough an issue just now.
I didn't know the old 2.8 JTD was sophisticated enough to have a limp mode.

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #4
2 versions Colin.
2.8 idtd was mechanical injectors & pump.... no ECU
2.8 jtd is Common Rail with electronically controlled injectors with high pressure pump, all controlled by an ECU.

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #5
2.8 idtd, the holy grail 😁

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Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #6
Loss of that much water, would normally cause cab heating to go, but followed, very quickly by engine overheating, the run down hill in freezing temperature, could, with all the cold airflow trough the rads, keep the engine from reaching anything like normal running temperatures, for the same reason the temperature sensor in the turbo pipework could have caused the limp mode.
None of that answer's the water loss. I'd get the system pressure tested if at all possible.

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #7
Thanks guys for all the info. I still can't figure where all the coolant went. I've done over 200 miles since I filled it and without a cough. Checked oil ok and water staying at level I topped it up. The water pump was changed with timing belt about 10k ago. Once I filled it it came out of limp. No smoke on startup. I'll add antifreeze tomorrow and keep an eye on it. I had also thought of a thermostat but still doesn't explain the water. Maybe reminding me its close to its 20th birthday

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #8
No miss in the engine and starts ok Jon

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #9
My work van is using coolant the odd time, close monitoring I found a drip of coolant under the water pump pulley that was changed 80k (km) ago,

It could go 2 ro 3 weeks and not use a drop even a 2 or 3 hr spin didnt make much difference, but then it could need a pint topping up 2 times in 2 days and then be ok for a few days,

Needless to say its booked in for a timing belt & water pump, and to save any future trouble i have a crank seal to swap at same time,

Look under the water pump for a tell tale stain Tommy,

I know the pump was done 10k ago but it may be starting to fail,

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #10
If you were in a steep descent you may have an issue with the pressure cap on the expansion bottle.
It’s designed to vent under excessive pressure and when you descend from height the pressure increases, the rate of pressure increase is 30 M/bar per 1000 feet of fall. If the pressure valve in the cap is weak it could open under the pressure rise causing it to expel the water.

If you’ve drove 200 mile since and it’s been OK (I’m assuming you’re not ascending/descending steep hills in that 200 miles) it would explain it.
I’d call into an auto factor and order a replacement cap and they should have it the next day. I’m also assuming the cap on the expansion bottle is the type with a pipe on the top of it?….. if so then replace it.
If you’re stuck I can have one the same day, in fact I think there is one in the store…. I could mail it out to you.

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 22.02.2023  ·  #11
There's a good chance it could be that, we were on descent for a good few miles on engine overrun to save brakes.My initial thought it was a thermostat and engine boiled over. We have climbed back up to 1600m with no problems. Ill see if I can get a new cap when I come out of the mountains.

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 23.02.2023  ·  #12
which moutains Tommy?...there is a full range of dealerships and motor factors in Saint-Gaudens. I used a place called 'Autodistribution' last summer in Saint-Gaudens when copming down from Pyrenees on N125 through Bagneres de Luchon. There is also a Fiat dealership across the frpom from it too.


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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 23.02.2023  ·  #13
Thanks We were in Savoie Alps, now in Massive Central, SW of Clermont-Ferrand Ferrand. Its not as steep a run down from here, ill find somewhere on way back to boat. I think JJFs thoughts could be right about the expansion tank cap valve. More important things at the minute like cramming in as much skiing as I can. 8-)

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 23.02.2023  ·  #14
And cramming in as much ‘wine’ comes next. 😂

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 23.02.2023  ·  #15
Quote by Mark&Wendy

And cramming in as much ‘wine’ comes next. 😂


I heard there was a tag axle eura mobil mh spotted in france pulling a bowser behind it.
 
........I think Tommy is planning on brimming the bowser with wine on the way home......any wonder the poor 2.8jtd emptied the coolant 🫣🫣..............


Hope the trip is going good since Tommy 😉😉😉


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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 23.02.2023  ·  #16
Quote by Mark&Wendy

And cramming in as much ‘wine’ comes next. 😂


I think the wine came first (prioritise, prioritise)…….Maybe that’s why it overheated !!

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 24.02.2023  ·  #17
I'm going to buy more wine than usual. I can always top the expansion chamber up with it if necessary. Add a few spices and ill have mulled wine on tap. Skiing finished after today. Anyone any suggestions of places to visit on route back to Cherbourg.

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 24.02.2023  ·  #18
Quote by TommyS

Thanks We were in Savoie Alps, now in Massive Central, SW of Clermont-Ferrand Ferrand. Its not as steep a run down from here, ill find somewhere on way back to boat. I think JJFs thoughts could be right about the expansion tank cap valve. More important things at the minute like cramming in as much skiing as I can. 8-)


excellent!...where did you ski?...We are just back from a half term trip in the MOHO to Passo Tonale...great camping aire literally at slope side. Also last year we parked in La PLagne aire with EHU which is again, on the slopes.


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Sudden water loss

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Posted: 24.02.2023  ·  #19
Quote by TommyS

I'm going to buy more wine than usual. I can always top the expansion chamber up with it if necessary. Add a few spices and ill have mulled wine on tap. Skiing finished after today. Anyone any suggestions of places to visit on route back to Cherbourg.


You can always do the old trucker trick, fill the windscreen washer bottle with Gin or vodka and hope you don't get a dirty screen before you get home.
Anyway near Nantes on your way back?

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 24.02.2023  ·  #20
Stayed at la Raffort just below Meribel beside the bubble into the village. Meant we had access to the 3 Valleys 600k of skiing. I've skied at La Plagne but never in MH. Whats the Aire like


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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 25.02.2023  ·  #21
Quote by TommyS

Stayed at la Raffort just below Meribel beside the bubble into the village. Meant we had access to the 3 Valleys 600k of skiing. I've skied at La Plagne but never in MH. Whats the Aire like


the aire is great. There is EHU for each place. Three or four level gravel areas with toilet with a few water taps around the place. Its bookable in winter and i think it was 20 euro per night in high season. It is literally next to a blue run that take you down to the nearest lift and you ski right to the parkup. There is a spar about 300m from the parkup and a few restaurants within easy walking distance. We had a super easter ski there in 2019. Id also highly recommend the newish area di sosta at passo tonale...there 2 weeks ago with perfect conditions and even got a tan...safe trip home the rest of your journey

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Re: Sudden water loss

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Posted: 09.04.2023  ·  #22
I havnt had any further bother but changed the cap on the water bottle. I think it was a one off with the cap.


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