Ignition barrel replacement

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 10.02.2021  ·  #1




I need to replace my ignition barrel. It is getting harder and harder to start. I don’t want to end up with different keys though. I just watched some YouTube videos where guys are recoding new ignition barrels to fit your existing key. Not electronically recoding, just inserting springs and wafers into the barrel that came with it, in the right order.

Is this an option in Europe? I haven’t come across any replacement barrels online that come with this recoding option.

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nition barrel replacement

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Posted: 10.02.2021  ·  #2
Quote by The Rambler




I need to replace my ignition barrel. It is getting harder and harder to start. I don’t want to end up with different keys though. I just watched some YouTube videos where guys are recoding new ignition barrels to fit your existing key. Not electronically recoding, just inserting springs and wafers into the barrel that came with it, in the right order.

Is this an option in Europe? I haven’t come across any replacement barrels online that come with this recoding option.


Jason, You don't necessarily need a new Barrel, If you can get one in a scrap yard with a key you can do the same thing, If you can go to the yard remove it yourself, that way you will know how to remove it without messing up your own one to see how it comes apart, I have always found getting the sheer head bolts out, can be the biggest problem, but with the invention of left-handed drill bits even that, became easy.

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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 10.02.2021  ·  #3
Well Martin, the problem I am trying to solve is being able to use my old key. So is there a way to recode a barrel, new or old, to accept my key, just as that video shows?


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 10.02.2021  ·  #4
Jason,
Give colleran's in the small crane Galway a ring and tell them what you are needing done, If they cant do it they will know who can,
Very knowledgable and helpful, and no bs either,
Hope you get sorted without too much Hassel 👍🏻


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 10.02.2021  ·  #5
Funny you say that John, I was thinking about them earlier. The reason being, I had a spare key cut by them for the van a couple of years back. The irony is that when they had had finished cutting the key they had no luck starting the van. When I showed up to collect the key I could start it no problem. That was the intermittent nature of a dodgy ignition switch in its infancy, as I look back now.

I’ll give them a shout for sure. Cheers.

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Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #6
It sounds like you have one of two problems either the key is not turning, or the switch contacts are not connecting.
What is making you think its the key and barrel? is the key not turning fully? if it is turning ok, is the spade at the end worn or the receiver worn? or is it the electrical connections in the switch mechanism knackered,


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #7
Buy a new barrel and then tell Deirdre you need a new van to go with it, you know when she gets a new dress and she needs new shoes to go with it 😁, worth a try but I can't see you getting away with it 😁


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #8
Oh sorry but time to remember
Very first car a 1950s VW Beetle over 20 years old. ignition key was a flat bladed screwdriver but then I only paid £75 f or the car, and guess what some bugger nicked it.
Cant help with the problem here way too difficult for me now, do wonder though if we didnt have things like YouTube and had to work things out we would all be better off.


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #9
Quote by sprinter

It sounds like you have one of two problems either the key is not turning, or the switch contacts are not connecting.
What is making you think its the key and barrel? is the key not turning fully? if it is turning ok, is the spade at the end worn or the receiver worn? or is it the electrical connections in the switch mechanism knackered,


I’m pretty sure it’s just the barrel Martin. I’ve had the steering wheel column casing opened before and was able to start her instantly by shorting the switch contacts, with the key in the on position. There is a bit of a blizzard blowing right now so I’m might use some downtime to go investigate it again. As it so frequently will not start with the key now, it makes it easier to troubleshoot.

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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #10
Quote by eirebus

Buy a new barrel and then tell Deirdre you need a new van to go with it, you know when she gets a new dress and she needs new shoes to go with it 😁, worth a try but I can't see you getting away with it 😁


🤔. I’d have her over a barrel wouldn’t I?

Sorry, I’ll get me coat. There was no need for that now, was there.

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Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #11
Quote by The Rambler

Quote by sprinter

It sounds like you have one of two problems either the key is not turning, or the switch contacts are not connecting.
What is making you think its the key and barrel? is the key not turning fully? if it is turning ok, is the spade at the end worn or the receiver worn? or is it the electrical connections in the switch mechanism knackered,


I’m pretty sure it’s just the barrel Martin. I’ve had the steering wheel column casing opened before and was able to start her instantly by shorting the switch contacts, with the key in the on position. There is a bit of a blizzard blowing right now so I’m might use some downtime to go investigate it again. As it so frequently will not start with the key now, it makes it easier to troubleshoot.


I would still think its electrical and not mechanical, the barrel and key is mechanical, with a spade like piece at the end, to turn the switch, if you separate the two and use a screwdriver in the slot to turn the switch that should tell you which it is. Shorting the connections on the back or outside will tell you nothing, only that the power/ wiring is going away to where its suppose to.

Is the whole replacement unit is not expensive so you wont loose much by taking one apart , if your own key and barrel is ok just remove the new one from the assembly and replace it with yours,


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #12
My door barrell was damaged during an attempt to break into my van. I got one from a breakers yard. I took it to my local locksmith and for €20 he made it suit my keys.


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #13
If you get another barrel, put your key into it and watch which pins/wafers stick out. These are the ones that will stop it turning.
Just get a fine file and gently file the protruding wafers flush with the barrel itself.
Once finished that barrel will work with that key, just remember to carefully clean all the metal filings off the barrel and wafers before you refit it, you don't want them inside the lock barrel.
I suggest removing the key and either disassembling in order and cleaning the whole lot out and drying it before refitment.#
Check the key works a few times by inserting and removing just in case any of them are burred and sticking.
I have done this for lots of bikes that had lost keys.

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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #14
Quote by sprinter

Quote by The Rambler

Quote by sprinter

It sounds like you have one of two problems either the key is not turning, or the switch contacts are not connecting.
What is making you think its the key and barrel? is the key not turning fully? if it is turning ok, is the spade at the end worn or the receiver worn? or is it the electrical connections in the switch mechanism knackered,


I’m pretty sure it’s just the barrel Martin. I’ve had the steering wheel column casing opened before and was able to start her instantly by shorting the switch contacts, with the key in the on position. There is a bit of a blizzard blowing right now so I’m might use some downtime to go investigate it again. As it so frequently will not start with the key now, it makes it easier to troubleshoot.


I would still think its electrical and not mechanical, the barrel and key is mechanical, with a spade like piece at the end, to turn the switch, if you separate the two and use a screwdriver in the slot to turn the switch that should tell you which it is. Shorting the connections on the back or outside will tell you nothing, only that the power/ wiring is going away to where its suppose to.

Is the whole replacement unit is not expensive so you wont loose much by taking one apart , if your own key and barrel is ok just remove the new one from the assembly and replace it with yours,


Typical. I go out today and take the casing of the column and get everything ready to start testing. The engine starts every time with the key which makes it harder for me to troubleshoot.

I do think the problem is mechanical as when it occurs I feel I can turn the key in a certain way by applying upward pressure while turning it, to make it start. So what I am trying to prove is that when the vehicle is in a state of never starting with the key, that I will then start with the key switch bypassed, i.e. shorting the key switch terminals thereby applying 12v straight to the solenoid.

If there is ever a point that the engine does not start with the key switch bypassed, I would then start to suspect the starter solenoid, motor or electrical connections to the starter. Right now I am just ruling in/ out the key switch. But as I say, it starts every time now which is not helpful.


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #15
Quote by Bounder

If you get another barrel, put your key into it and watch which pins/wafers stick out. These are the ones that will stop it turning.
Just get a fine file and gently file the protruding wafers flush with the barrel itself.
Once finished that barrel will work with that key, just remember to carefully clean all the metal filings off the barrel and wafers before you refit it, you don't want them inside the lock barrel.
I suggest removing the key and either disassembling in order and cleaning the whole lot out and drying it before refitment.#
Check the key works a few times by inserting and removing just in case any of them are burred and sticking.
I have done this for lots of bikes that had lost keys.


Wow. I am trying to visualize that Bounder. I will mull that over.


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #16
So if by using my key on a new barrel, i.e. the wrong key, the fact that the wafers are restricted from protruding out (by presumably by an outer cylinder of some kind that surrounds the barrel), the key will not turn fully. So any barrel can be made to turn by any key when the wafers are not restricted, hence they can be filed down so as not to be restricted when in situ? Well that’s just bloody brilliant. I should be able to get a barrel replacement to work with my key then. 😀


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #17
I think my ignition barrel doesn’t want to come out. I can turn the key to a certain position to allow me to depress two pins (see pic) that look like they should release the barrel. But it will not pop out. Am I missing something?

 


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #18
Quote by The Rambler

I think my ignition barrel doesn’t want to come out.


Answer: There was a torque head screw I missed. That needs to be removed too before the barrel releases.

But alas, not a wafer in sight. So it doesn’t seem possible to recode these barrels. Not in the same way as done in the video in post #1 anyway. But a call to a local locksmith might be in order, if (and it’s a big if), I need to replace the barrel.

I haven’t proved diddly squat today, other than I could take the barrel out, and take it apart to reveal a plastic switch mechanism which aligns with the metal switch gear of the key mechanism. I panicked a bit as I struggled to get it realigned and back together. Who knows. That might be enough to rectify a dodgy switch. 🤓

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Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #19
Quote by The Rambler

Quote by The Rambler

I think my ignition barrel doesn’t want to come out.


Answer: There was a torque head screw I missed. That needs to be removed too before the barrel releases.

But alas, not a wafer in sight. So it doesn’t seem possible to recode these barrels. Not in the same way as done in the video in post #1 anyway. But a call to a local locksmith might be in order, if (and it’s a big if), I need to replace the barrel.

I haven’t proved diddly squat today, other than I could take the barrel out, and take it apart to reveal a plastic switch mechanism which aligns with the metal switch gear of the key mechanism. I panicked a bit as I struggled to get it realigned and back together. Who knows. That might be enough to rectify a dodgy switch. 🤓


take it out show us a couple of pics of the unit under side where the spade is and around the outside. leave it out and use a screw driver to turn the plastic bit down in the tube to start it and see if you can replicate the problem, put a meter on the wire going to the starter solenoid to make sure you have power going dawn to the solenoid, if you have power every time including when the starter won,t engage you need to start checking relays etc


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Re: Ignition barrel replacement

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Posted: 11.02.2021  ·  #20
Quote by sprinter

Quote by The Rambler

Quote by The Rambler

I think my ignition barrel doesn’t want to come out.


Answer: There was a torque head screw I missed. That needs to be removed too before the barrel releases.

But alas, not a wafer in sight. So it doesn’t seem possible to recode these barrels. Not in the same way as done in the video in post #1 anyway. But a call to a local locksmith might be in order, if (and it’s a big if), I need to replace the barrel.

I haven’t proved diddly squat today, other than I could take the barrel out, and take it apart to reveal a plastic switch mechanism which aligns with the metal switch gear of the key mechanism. I panicked a bit as I struggled to get it realigned and back together. Who knows. That might be enough to rectify a dodgy switch. 🤓


take it out show us a couple of pics of the unit under side where the spade is and around the outside. leave it out and use a screw driver to turn the plastic bit down in the tube to start it and see if you can replicate the problem, put a meter on the wire going to the starter solenoid to make sure you have power going dawn to the solenoid, if you have power every time including when the starter won,t engage you need to start checking relays etc


I regret not taking pics when I had the whole thing out and apart Martin. But I ended up putting it back together promptly for fear of not being able to do so, or losing bits. If I end up taking it apart again I will follow your steps.

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