France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

 
 
 
 
 
 
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France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 11.12.2020  ·  #1
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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 11.12.2020  ·  #2
It doesn't say motorhomes or van's


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 11.12.2020  ·  #3
As I do not see motorhomes mentioned on the list does that mean that they are excluded?


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 11.12.2020  ·  #4
‘‘Twas on one of the motorhoming French sites I frequent”
You can bet that the French Motorhomes will give it short shrift .,. Same as the emission stickers.

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 11.12.2020  ·  #5
There's no room left in the windscreen for stickers, so now their going for the bodywork 😁😁


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 12.12.2020  ·  #6
In France, as per EU Directive, all motorhomes (Camping-car) irrespective of GVW (PTC) are classed as private passenger vehicles so the above regulations for vehicles of the commercial sector would not apply.

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #7
Just been in contact with the guy who runs motorhomingfrance.co.uk He is of the opinion that all vehicles over 3.5 will have to have them. It is a good website, keeps you up to date of all motorhome related stuff in France

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #8
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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #9
Jon, I didn’t realize your van was over 3.5 tonnes. Have you changed it, or did you get it up plated


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #10
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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #11
Oh. I only seen it up in Fahan, but just presumed it was 3500. You have a decent payload so.


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #12
Quote by JJF

Yeah, I read it on on of the French motorhome sites that it applies to motorhomes too.
I bought the stickers HERE.



I love your positivity Jon, thanks for the link but the way things are going at present I will wait a little longer.
If things do not change soon we will not even need diesel never mind French stickers.

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #13
It can COVID all it likes Norman, I’m heading for the continent in 2021 🍷

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #14
Quote by JJF

It can COVID all it likes Norman, I’m heading for the continent in 2021 🍷



With any luck Jon we will be on your tail.👍😂

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #15
Quote by JJF

It can COVID all it likes Norman, I’m heading for the continent in 2021 🍷


Us too Jon.

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #16
Quote by JJF

Yeah, I read it on on of the French motorhome sites that it applies to motorhomes too.
I bought the stickers HERE.


I still think that the regulation which clearly states 'Poids Lourds' (HGV's) and 'Cars' (Coaches) and includes pictograms of HGV's and Coaches does not apply to motorhomes (camping-cars)
Similarly, contrary to popular belief the speed limit signs displayed on HGV's and Coaches are not mandatory on motorhomes over 3.5t

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.12.2020  ·  #17
There is no mention of it yet on any of the seven Uk based Motorhome forums that I visit, I shall sit tight, not as if I am in a hurry to get there,

Davy

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 31.12.2020  ·  #18
Just got the January newsletter from Motorhoming France, they claim the stickers are required for motorhomes over 3500kg from 1st Jan 2021. Has anyone else had confirmation?

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 31.12.2020  ·  #19
I read uk vehicles


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 01.01.2021  ·  #20
I was told by a French MH owner I know that it does apply to MH but that but most likely will not be enforced ,he saying it’s a bit like the breathalyser law .

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 01.01.2021  ·  #21
Quote by irishpatrick49

I was told by a French MH owner I know that it does apply to MH but that but most likely will not be enforced ,he saying it’s a bit like the breathalyser law .



I would agree with you Patrick, it will be a storm in a tea cup.
And if it requires a sticker to get on holidays I am sure that will be able to be accommodated.


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 01.01.2021  ·  #22
I’d we’re a sticker on ma forehead if I thought I’d get away

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 01.01.2021  ·  #23
Quote by relay racer

I’d we’re a sticker on ma forehead if I thought I’d get away



Jason I bet you will not be alone there.😄


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 14.01.2021  ·  #24
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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.01.2021  ·  #25
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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.01.2021  ·  #26
Quote by BigMal

Better safe than sorry so ordered some on Amazon which were a bit cheaper
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fanxi…24&sr=8-10


Don't deliver to ROI
Looks like one on the back and the other two somewhere under the mirrors, what an absolute stupid regulation, if you can't see the truck you definitely won't see the stickers and if you stop to read the stickers you'll be run over as they're in the blind spot 😁


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 15.01.2021  ·  #27
Try Amazon France CLICK HERE, €7.50 with free delivery. They're big ugly yolks though, even on the side /back of an artic.
Whatever about the sides, I can't see room for one on the back of mine, within the positioning regulations, with the ladder and bike rack, tail lights and number plate taking up most of the back wall.

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 19.01.2021  ·  #28
Have to agree they are very big. I wonder do they have to be the Angles Mort or could you use an English version


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 20.01.2021  ·  #29
Quote by TommyS

Have to agree they are very big. I wonder do they have to be the Angles Mort or could you use an English version


There isn't an English version, it's a French Reg.

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 20.01.2021  ·  #30
The standard size is A4, which is roughly 12" x 8" and is intended to be stuck on permanently. I will be printing my own in A5 size which is half the size of A4 and only fitting them, when travelling to France, and removing them when elsewhere. I definitely do NOT want these ugly signs stuck on my motorhome permanently.


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 20.01.2021  ·  #31
Quote by Stoney

The standard size is A4, which is roughly 12" x 8" and is intended to be stuck on permanently. I will be printing my own in A5 size which is half the size of A4 and only fitting them, when travelling to France, and removing them when elsewhere. I definitely do NOT want these ugly signs stuck on my motorhome permanently.


Maybe fit A4 to the rear as that will be most noticeable


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 20.01.2021  ·  #32
I'm not ordering mine yet. We all know how militant the French can get over regulations they don't like.
I can't see Monsieur Camping-cariste rushing out to deface his beloved camping-car with those signs.

Also, many motorhomes are 3.5t+ but just uprated from the basic 3.5t with nothing physically different to show the uprate. The police are unlikely be popping bonnets to check VIN plates.

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 20.01.2021  ·  #33
Quote by baguette

I'm not ordering mine yet. We all know how militant the French can get over regulations they don't like.
I can't see Monsieur Camping-cariste rushing out to deface his beloved camping-car with those signs.

Also, many motorhomes are 3.5t+ but just uprated from the basic 3.5t with nothing physically different to show the uprate. The police are unlikely be popping bonnets to check VIN plates.


That's what I'd be hoping for too, stickers will look stupid on a Camper we don't have blind spots on the sides of our vans only the rear

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 21.01.2021  ·  #34
This might go the same way as the carrying a breathalyser law went in France. There was so much confusion about it.

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 21.01.2021  ·  #35
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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 22.01.2021  ·  #36
Quote by JJF

Things not yet set in stone.
An appeal to the European Commission has been filed to overturn this stupid rule.

https://www.fntr.fr/sites/defa…nO0H5DfX15


In English

Dear Mr Cozigou,
The IRU hereby calls on the European Commission to engage with the authorities competent to oppose the obligation to indicate blind spots on vehicles over 3.5T introduced by France on its territory.
Please find below information on the French measurement as well as the IRU arguments regarding nonsense, lack of proportionality and the measure's non-compliance with EU law.

1. Contextual elements concerning the French measures

Article L-313-1 of the French Highway Code, introduced by Article 55 of Law No. 2019- 1428 of December 24, 2019, of the orientation of mobility, requires that vehicles of more than 3.5 tonnes be equipped, from 1 January 2021, with signage showing the position of blind spots. The purpose of this signage is to enable other road users, and in particular the most vulnerable, to better understand the existence and position of blind spots on heavy vehicles. Two application texts aimed at defining the implementation of the precise and practical terms of this obligation were drafted as follows:
- A decree n ° 2020-1396 of November 17, 2020, relating to signalling showing blind spots on vehicles with a total authorized weight in load exceeds 3.5 tonnes. This decree was published in the French official journal on November 19, 2020, and will enter into force on January 1, 2021. - A draft decree applying Article R. 313-32-1 of the Highway Code relating to signage materializing blind spots on heavy vehicles.
This text has been notified to the European Commission. A period of status quo opened until January 4, 2021. The text should therefore be published in French official journal from January 5, 2021. The obligation to signal blind spots will apply to French vehicles and foreigners circulating in France. The draft decree provides for a number of derogations from the positioning criteria when there is a technical impossibility on vehicles. Vehicles for which a structural impossibility is proven may, for their part, be partially or totally exempted from affixing the signage.
As the global road transport organization, the IRU represents nearly one million of road transport companies in Europe. Road safety is a priority absolute for commercial road hauliers of goods and passengers who work daily to improve it. The IRU is deeply concerned about the compatibility of this new French measure with European legislation and by the proportionality of this measure with the objective of reducing the number of accidents in the blind spot involving heavy goods vehicles and transport vehicles passengers.

2. Questionable feasibility and unrealistic schedule
French legislation applying to all heavy goods vehicles and vehicles transporting people travelling on French territory, it will have an impact on vehicles not registered in France and on the freedom to provide services and the free movement of passengers and cargo.
IRU is deeply concerned about the introduction of this unilateral measure French without scientific impact assessment. This could be the start of a range of different sticker designs introduced in different Member States without cooperation and harmonization. It is estimated that for some vehicle combinations six or more stickers may be needed. It should be noted that the attachment of these stickers will be technically impossible in many cases container doors, car doors, tractors for semi-trailers, tank vehicles, flatbed vehicles, arms for tippers removable ... even sometimes structurally impossible like transport vehicles of wood Stickers do not adhere well to used canvas; it is difficult to stick the adhesive on the canvas when it is not new. In addition, the service life of the stickers is limited and may need to be replaced regularly. The implementing decree will not be published until January 5, 2021, five days after entry in force of the measure. This text specifies the technical specifications of the stickers and the places where they should be affixed. The calendar will make it impossible for all French and non-French commercial carriers of passengers and goods active in France to buy, receive and affix the number stickers needed in time to comply with the new rules coming into force effective January 1, 2021.

3. Road safety will not be greatly improved by affixing mandatory stickers on heavy goods vehicles
A scientific impact study of the proposed measure should have been carried out. IRU doubts that this new French regulation will contribute significantly to the reduction the number of accidents in blind spots involving heavy goods vehicles.
- Distinguishing between heavy vehicles can encourage the use of more smaller ones who will not have to comply with this new obligation. It could increase the total number of vehicles on the road and challenge road safety. It should be noted that light commercial vehicles have also blind spots.
- Placing the stickers on various parts of heavy vehicles and suits does not guarantee that vulnerable road users understand what the decals mean and will avoid blind spots. Information will be provided without any guarantee of improved safety.
road.
- The placement of stickers could make discussions about the very complex liability in the event of an accident. Stickers do not improve any direct and indirect visibility for the driver; they only inform other road users. One of the main objectives of reception by European type and road safety legislation is to reduce human error involved in such accidents and improve the
direct and indirect visibility of the driver to better detect other road users.

4. The proposed measures are not compatible with EU law
EU law already provides for a number of harmonized solutions for meeting the challenges of the blind spot of commercial vehicles and heavy freight transport. The IRU seriously questions the compatibility of the French measures with European legislation.
- The legal basis used by France to justify this obligation is the Directive (EU) 2015/1535 on the information in the field of technical regulations. The preamble indicates that the target directive mainly information relating to national standards and rules rather than European standards.
- The directive also provides for a procedure to avoid standards and rules national policies leading to distortions of competition, creating obstacles to trade and hampering the freedom to provide services, including the free movement of passengers and goods. A comitology procedure should be followed to examine ways to harmonize initiatives between the Member States.
- Insofar as the new French regulations will concern French and non-French registered vehicles, it will introduce barriers to the
trade, the freedom to provide services and the free movement of passengers and cargo. This unilateral French measure will no longer allow foreign vehicles to travel in France without a blind spot sticker.
- Article 6.5 of Regulation (EU) 2018/858 on type-approval states that the Member States must not prohibit, restrict or hinder the placing on the market, registration or entry into service of vehicles, components or separate technical entities complying with this Regulation. It does not mention the obligation for vehicles to have stickers for blind spots.
- EU law requires all heavy goods vehicles and passenger vehicles are fitted with mirrors and/or other specially designed devices to improve the driver's visibility in blind spots.
- The recently revised General Safety Regulation 2019/2144 provides for additional measures, which should become applicable from 2022. These measures aim to reduce human error and do not include affixing stickers for blind spots on heavy goods vehicles.

5. The proposed French provisions are not proportionate to their goal.
A 2012 European Commission report on the implementation of the rules on the modernization of mirrors for blind spots indicated that it is very important to complete the installation of the driver assistance systems with awareness campaigns for professional drivers and other road users the road. The IRU recalls that in several European countries, including Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, such awareness-raising campaigns passengers and cargo have been arranged or are underway with the involvement of industry, authorities and other road users. Blindspot stickers have been made available on a voluntary basis for vehicles registered in the respective countries, as an awareness tool.
To sum up, stickers for blind spots could be made available on a voluntary basis and their use could be encouraged where appropriate. possible and recommended on the basis of scientific research. An obligation unilateral approach of a single Member State having a negative impact on the free movement of passengers and cargo is not acceptable.
The IRU, therefore, asks the European Commission to oppose the introduction of blind spot stickers mandatory for heavy goods vehicles travelling in France.

I remain entirely at your disposal to discuss this question further with you or your relevant departments and to provide information or evidence additional if necessary. Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Looking forward to your return, Sincerely,


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 28.01.2021  ·  #37
I certainly hope this isn't enforced, what a useless waste of time and money.
If you can't see a large vehicle you shouldn't be driving and if you're close enough to be able read the sticker its too late anyway...

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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 28.01.2021  ·  #38
I still can't get over the size of the sticker. There is one for a bus and one for a lorry


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 28.01.2021  ·  #39
Anyone in Wexford seen any trucks with them on ?


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Re: France, above 3.5 tonne..... new regs

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Posted: 28.01.2021  ·  #40
The IRU (International Road Transport Union) make a good case against the stickers. Hopefully, they will succeed in getting this necessary regulation consigned to the dustbin.

EU regulations on mirrors cover the whole area of blind spots, as said by the IRU, so there shouldn't be any blindspots except for directly behind a vehicle with no see through view.


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