Downplating to 3500kg

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 14.09.2020  ·  #1
I am currently downplating an registered campervan from 4000kg to 3500kg in order to be able to drive with a B license.I am resident in the Republic. I am using the services of SV tech for the issuing of a new VIN plate. It was originally a minibus and weighs in at 2800kg unladen so I have enough payload to spare.
My question is do SV tech fill out the modifications report for the RSA or do I need to pay somebody else here to sign off that.I tried to get the new plate off of the manufacturer here but hit a brick wall.
Has anybody here completed the process here in Ireland. When I get the new VIN plate do I go to a CVRT centre or a motortax office.What other certificate s with be required.I have e mailed the DVCSD asking of their requirements and received a generic reply back telling me if I wanted to tax a car to go online or visit your nearest car tax office.
Has anybody got the experience of completing post SV Tech.
I did this process once before but in UK so had the V5C with the reduced weighs before re- registration here.

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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 15.09.2020  ·  #2
Unfortunately there is no written procedure within 'the system' to cover this.
The only way forward is to get the downplating done, keep the certificate from SV Tech safe for future reference and stick on the new plate next to the old one.
At the next test the tester will change the weight on the CoVIS system to the new weight, the SVTech cert is recognised by the RSA.
Persistent contact with the motor tax crowd with a photo of the new plate in place and a copy of the SVTech cert should eventually get you a new Registration Certificate showing the new GVW.
It is doable, I have friends who have both up and down plated but be prepared for a lot of ignorance about the process amongst the 'officials' you will meet along the way.
Good luck


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 15.09.2020  ·  #3
Thanks Baguette, That is what I half expect to be the avenue I have to follow.There is currently a full HGV CVRT on the vehicle.I guess I will have to complete a new test for a LGV once I make the change. I will have great Craic explaining all about SV Tech unless I meat somebody familiar with the process.I will keep an update how I get on to let anybody interested a chance to be aware of the process.😀

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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 15.09.2020  ·  #4
Quote by roadwretch

.There is currently a full HGV CVRT on the vehicle.I guess I will have to complete a new test for a LGV once I make the change.


There is no need for a new test as there will have been no modifications to the vehicle. Once you have the certificate and plate showing the 3,500kg GVW you are good to go with a B licence


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 15.09.2020  ·  #5
Problem is insurance company are looking for a copy of VRC with the down graded weight before they will insure.I will have to see will they be happy with SV Tech cert. Will Guards go by VRC or plate if checking for suitability to licence


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 15.09.2020  ·  #6
Quote by roadwretch

Problem is insurance company are looking for a copy of VRC with the down graded weight before they will insure.I will have to see will they be happy with SV Tech cert. Will Guards go by VRC or plate if checking for suitability to licence


The Irish VRC is mostly a work of fiction :( most/a lot of VRC's have the GVW recorded as 1 so it might not be very helpful to your insurance company in that respect, what does yours say.
It's the VIN Plate information which trumps all.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 15.09.2020  ·  #7
My VRC says 4000kg. That is because it was originally a coach built minibus , probably a 16 seater so must have had some heavy seats installed and allowance for passengers. Hopefully they will accept the new weight plate.I feel I will have to jump a few hurdles before I get the details recorded on the VRC.
SV Techs charge for this service is £120.
They are very efficient and helpfull but say they cannot fill out the RSA modification report. I hope that they will not push for this report as it needs other SQI signatures who are registered with them.I didn't need to do any mods so hopefully SV techs documents will do.Wish me luck.I think the RSA should update information concerning the up paying and downplating requirements and list all acceptable suppliers for the service.
Thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the advice


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 15.09.2020  ·  #8
If there are no modifications carried out in connection with the down rating there is no modifications report to be filled out.
A friend of mine got his Mercedes Sprinter based motorhome uprated from 3,880kg to 4,100kg by SVTech with no modifications and got the vehicle records updated without having to complete the modifications report.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 15.09.2020  ·  #9
That's good to hear.I reckon it is up to the CVRT centre to update the new weight on the system since they seem to have the access to it. Once it is on the system the VRC should be able to go to Shannon and be returned with what is up on the system.
In theory anyway.

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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 29.09.2020  ·  #10
I down weighted my camper van recently so I may be able to help you
Hopefully you can PM me and we can talk about it


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 29.09.2020  ·  #11
Hi Fester63, Unfortunately I dont have enough posts in order to be able to PM. I got my new weight plate and certificate back from SV Tech. Did you use their services also ? I must take a visit to my motortax office with the cert and attempt to get the new weight logged on the system so I can get my vehicle registration certificate updated to say 3500kg GVW.
Is this the route you took or did you go through a CVRT centre in order for them to up load the down plated weight on the system. I believe they have access to make the change and then maybe sent the VRC to Shannon and it will comeback updated.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 29.09.2020  ·  #12
Yes I used SV tech and posted the declaration of the new weight to Shannon with my log book and was issued with a new log book with the new weight..I phoned the RSA and my van is now classes as light vehicle for the purpose of the CVRT..As the van had a current Cvrt cert they didnt come back to me in relation to getting a new test on the new weight....I dont think the CVRT center can amend the weight of vehicle and will only test on the weight recorded on log book which is whats on file in Shannon


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 29.09.2020  ·  #13
Thanks Fester
Did you have to accompany the SV Tech cert and logbook with an note or letter explaining what you wanted, or have to send a photo of the new SvTech stick on weightplate.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 29.09.2020  ·  #14
You could include a note to say that you want to down weight your vehicle and include the log book and the paper declaration from SV tech which has the new weight on it


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 29.09.2020  ·  #15
Thanks Fester, maith an fear


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 24.10.2020  ·  #16
I got my documents including SV Techs Cert back from Shannon with a letter stating that it was forwarded to Vehicle Registration Unit and returned not processed..Please contact VRU unit At motortax@dtas.ie.
Where does this leave me.Is it the case that they are not accepting SV Techs paperwork. Is it because they are not familiar with the process,I don't know.😀


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 24.10.2020  ·  #17
They were accepting SVTech documents this time last year, nothing should have changed as SVTech still hold the same accreditations.
It seems to be that the various departments simply say 'NO' instead of putting any effort into doing their job or maybe every department thinks it's someone else's job.

The story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody’s job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn’t do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 24.10.2020  ·  #18
I will have to call into the motortax office with my documents and see if I can see a supervisor that is aware of the process once this lock up is over with. Wish me luck

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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 24.10.2020  ·  #19
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Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 25.10.2020  ·  #20
Quote by roadwretch

I got my documents including SV Techs Cert back from Shannon with a letter stating that it was forwarded to Vehicle Registration Unit and returned not processed..Please contact VRU unit At motortax@dtas.ie.
Where does this leave me.Is it the case that they are not accepting SV Techs paperwork. Is it because they are not familiar with the process,I don't know.😀

Do two things.
Contact the VRU unit as suggested
( who ever they are ?)
Ask Shannon to explain their letter.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 25.10.2020  ·  #21
I contacted the VRU email address before asking their requirements for the process.I got a generic e mail back which was a link to motortax.ie online site to tax my vehicle.Its like banging my head off the wall.We are the masters of passing the book here in Ireland. It's normal to be sent around in a circle.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 03.11.2020  ·  #22
I phoned the motortax office and was rang back by a supervisor who asked me to forward my documents to himself. I did so and he rang back today , and told me that SV TECH was an English company. I informed him that they are acceptable as an SQI(Special qualified Individual) to the RSA. He asked me to send in the proof.
Does anybody know of any reference on any list of acceptable people or company on any RSA list. I cannot find any reference. I must ring the RSA tomorrow but can imagine what to expect. I suppose I am looking for proof really. Has anyone got a name of a knowledgable person in the RSA that could supply me with this proof.Mercedes the manufacturer don't have any interest and do not want to know about it. Is it the way that SV TECH are no longer acceptable. If that is the way it would want to be highlighted. They are trying my patience now. Its dragging on for months now. New plate fitted to campervan. Insurance company looking for new weight on the VRC to ensure I can continue to drive on B License. It never rains but it pours😀


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 03.11.2020  ·  #23
Contact SV Tech and explain the situation to them,
Ask their advise on the matter,


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 03.11.2020  ·  #24
I will ring them tomorrow.They told me at the time that they are acceptable.I gave them a link to the RSA modification forms at the time but they said they couldn't fill them out.They sent me the plate and a converters certificate.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 03.11.2020  ·  #25
The RSA has told me the following in an email a while ago SV tech can sign the modifications report as an SQI, provide of course that they meet the requirements of an SQI as set out in the test manual.
A point to note: SvTech are recognised by the DVSA (Driver & Vehicle Standards Agency, the UK equivalent of the RSA's Directorate of Vehicle Standards, Testing and Enforcement

The RSA Modifications/Repairs Report form defines an SQI as:
Suitably qualified individual (SQI) A “suitably qualified individual” (SQI) must have:
• A Mechanical Engineering/Technical Qualification (Level 7 or higher accredited courses) or
appropriate accreditation with Engineers Ireland or the Institute of Automobile Engineer Assessors, which is a UK based organisation.
• A minimum of 5 years’ experience of working in a suitable technical environment (preferably
automotive or Engineering Environment).
• Access to adequate facilities to carry out a thorough vehicle examination and appropriate professional
indemnity insurance.


SvTech has since 1993 specifically offered technical support to truck and van manufacturers and converters in the UK and Europe and specialise in matters relating to Vehicle Type Approval, with particular emphasis on payloads and braking systems. SvTech are also the UK’s leading authority on re-rating vehicles, which includes uprating to give more payload capacity, and downplating to reduce Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)

It would seem to be game, set and match that the RSA recognises the work of SvTech.
A final point: A good friend of mine who got his Mercedes Sprinter based mh uprated by SvTech last summer had no problem with the RSA side of things but did have unbelievable hassle trying to get the new weight on to the Registration Certificate (Form RF101)

The most recent relevant contact in the RSA I have is Caroline Greene, Principal Engineer - Vehicle Standards, Dir 096 25867, Mob 087 9138094, email cgreene@rsa.ie

Hope the above helps, apologies for being a bit long-winded.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 06.11.2020  ·  #26
Thanks Baguette for the very informative response. I have contacted SV Tech concerning their eligibility for approval by the RSA and have received no reply.I emailed them twice.They had a quick and excellent service when I contacted them for their services but obviously choose to ignore me when there is nothing in it for them😀
No modifications were needed to downplate but they seem to want a modification report anyway. I tried ringing RSA for an hour solid yesterday and got terrible music played.I will try your contact number after work today and see if I get any luck.I may have to get a modification report done by a Irish SQI to keep all party's happy.I will let you know haw I get on


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Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 06.11.2020  ·  #27
You could give the Caravan Club a call and see if they can help as they have their own Vehicle inspection system in order for you to get insurance through them, it would hardly be the first time they have come across your situation with downplaying.
The lesson to be learned here is, If doing a conversion, get the plating done at the same time as the conversion.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 06.11.2020  ·  #28
SvTech has since 1993 specifically offered technical support to truck and van manufacturers and converters in the UK and Europe and specialise in matters relating to Vehicle Type Approval


Is the difficulty that SvTech are no longer in the EU?


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 06.11.2020  ·  #29
This afternoon I spoke with my friend who got his mh uprated last summer (2019).
He confirmed to me that he got the new plate and paperwork from Svtech, he also said he had nothing to do with The RSA but went straight to the National Vehicle and Driver File (NVDF) people in Shannon and after a lot of toing and froing, which included sending them a copy of the SvTech certificate eventually got a new Vehicle Registration Certificate with the new GVW.

This year (2020) when he took the Mh for its annual CVRT he was sent a CVRT disc for 12 months backdated to when weight was changed. On enquiring, he was told that as the vehicle had been 'modified' the start date of the new CVRT Certificate was back to the date of modification.
He challenged this pointing out that there was in fact no modification to the vehicle and provided a copy of the SvTech paperwork, eventually, he received the following 'Thank you for your email and submitting the paperwork as requested. A revised certificate of roadworthiness was created today which is due to expire on 01-04-2021.'
The person at The RSA who sent the above email was Ruth Lardner, Clerical Officer, Commercial Vehicle Roadworthiness Testing Admin Section, Tel. (091) 872600, lo-call 1890 40 60 40, cvrtadmin@rsa.ie www.rsa.ie

All my experience points to the fact that The RSA have to date failed to put in place a standard operating procedure (SOP) which staff can refer to when dealing with the uprating or downrating of the GVW of a Motor Caravan and the whole process is managed in a totally ad hoc manner.
The simple fact that they seek the completion of a Modifications/Repairs Report, when no modifications have taken place, a document designed to be used in connection with changes to Commercial Vehicles operated in the commercial world only goes to confirm the fact that The RSA continue to consider motor caravans, which are private passenger vehicles, to be commercially operated goods vehicles.

Finally, according to EU regulations, which Ireland has adopted in Irish Law, Motor Caravans ARE NOT categorised as goods vehicles but are in fact in the same category as cars.

Apologies for the rant.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 07.11.2020  ·  #30
I have e mailed Caroline Greene to ask for confirmation of acceptance of SV Techs services by the RSA. I also contacted an Irish SQI who said he could provide a declaration of suitability for the downplating (cost-E185) . He said he had done it in the past , but it was hit and miss weather it would be accepted , depending who got the paperwork in front of them. There should indeed be a SOP so the different departments could have a reference pool of information to go by. They seem to keep going back to a modification report , but no modifications have taken place. It would be different if new shocks , leaf springs , axil , wheels or brakes had to be fitted. I will see what reply if any I will get. I am surprised that SV Tech cannot supply me with proof that the Irish authorities accept the use of their services.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 07.11.2020  ·  #31
Quote by roadwretch

................................... I am surprised that SV Tech cannot supply me with proof that the Irish authorities accept the use of their services.


That being said, it is a matter of record that the RSA do accept SvTech certification.
Also, the fact that SvTech have the required qualifications to be recognised by the UK's Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, whose relevant Irish equivalent is the RSA's Vehicle Standards, Testing and Enforcement Directorate, and both organisations require SQI's to be members of the UK based Institute of Automobile Engineer Assessor reinforces the validity of SvTech certification.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 07.11.2020  ·  #32
Thanks Baguette , I will continue to pursue the proof of acceptance that the motortax office require to make the required change on the VRC. I did not realise that the IAEA was in fact an English origination. It will reinforce my case when I contact them again. I think that since the RSA are a government run body that they are required to respond to my e-mail. It is difficult to get anything done at the moment when alot of people are working from home. Let us hope we will be all out and about enjoying the outdoors before long😀.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 13.12.2020  ·  #33
I finally got my VRC back with the downplated weight recorded. It took 3 months of back and forth. I had to get a Certificate of conformity signed by an Irish SQI before they would recognise the change. That cost another 200 . The SQI said that they should have accepted SV Techs Cert as it was basically the same thing. He said that it can go either way with the VRC crowd. Be prepared for a hard struggle anybody who wants to up plate or downplate. Of course you have to meet the weight parameters and conditions.
Thanks all for your help , advice and encouragement 😆


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 13.12.2020  ·  #34
A total lack of a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) which is intolerable. The RSA is not fit a for purpose operation.
As I said in a previous post, a friend of mine who got his Sprinter based Rapido uprated from 3.8t to 4.1t had an SVTech certificate and plate accepted.

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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 13.12.2020  ·  #35
Aw quote of what I received in a e mail from the RSA when I questioned them of their acceptance of SV Techs paperwork.
"The RSA do not endorse or approve any third parties products or works."


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 13.12.2020  ·  #36
This from The RSA 14/01/2014 in relation to an enquiry about a down-plating

Dear Colin
SV tech can sign the HCV modifications report as an SQI, provide of course that they meet the requirements of an SQI as set out in the test manual.
However if the 4,000 kg DGVW is noted on the vehicle registration cert and you want this changed to 3,500 kg you will need to contact the Department of Transport Tourism And Sport in Shannon verify what documentation they will require
.


So the above confirms that SVTech certification is acceptable (They are accredited to the IAEA).
The RSA are correct when they say they 'do not endorse or approve any third parties products or works' if it is meant to indicate they can't display favouritism to one service provider over others.
However, it is badly put because if taking the statement literally it appears that for example, they would not approve of works carried by a third party (your local garage) out to address a defect in a vehicle which failed a CVRT.


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Downplating 2021

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Posted: 18.02.2021  ·  #37
Hi all

First post here, so cant PM Roadwretch for his opinion.

Wondering after this informative thread is the shorter way to downplate a motorhome going forward that you employ an Irish SQI? Would a member of IAEA suffice?
Has anybody else downplated since, or used SV Tech successfully since Brexit?

Thanks, great site!


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 21.02.2021  ·  #38
Hi Outandabout, If I was going through the process again I would go to SV Tech for the new plate and information of any modifications needed. Then I would go to an Irish SQI or member of the IAEA for a Certificate of Conformity. I am not sure how Brexit has changed things since 2021. Be prepared to stick with it as many in the government departments are unsure of the process. If downplaying you will have to make sure that you are left with enough payload.


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Re: Downplating to 3500kg

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Posted: 22.02.2021  ·  #39
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