Changing out ignition switch

What about immobilized and remote central locking?

 
 
 
 
 
 
The Rambler
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Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #1
So I have what I suspect is a dodgy worn ignition switch. It works most of the time, but every now again it won’t start when I turn the key. As in, no power to the starter solenoid or so it seems. I can replace the ignition barrel cheaply enough. But what does that mean for key replacement? I’d rather avoid costly reprogramming.

From what I can tell, you can remove a transponder chip from your old key and install in the housing of your new key to operate the immobiliser. What about the remote central locking? Is that a separate system? If so, could I go ahead and swop over the transponder chip into the new key, but keep the old key to operate the fob remote?

Incidentally, I wonder if a dodgy ignition switch could explain the engine stalls I have experienced on a couple of occasions in the past? See thread here
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #2
Mine must of had the same problem in the past as it is now button start. Your turn the ignition on and then press a button to activate starter motor and solenoid etc.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #3
That’s interesting. I thought of just installing a push button switch, which when pressed in conjunction with the key being present in the barrel would start the engine. But I don’t know if that modification would be compliant for CVRT.

So do you reckon yours is modified?
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #4
Quote by The Rambler



So do you reckon yours is modified?


Definitely. Its basically a simple switch wired to the solenoid. Still need the key to turn the ignition on.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #5
I can't see it being a problem for the CVRT either as some cars put in a card key and then push button start
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #6
Quote by eirebus

I can't see it being a problem for the CVRT either as some cars put in a card key and then push button start


That’s a very good point Dave. I can see it being an issue if the testers can’t start her because they don’t have the knack however. I’ll see if it gets worse or not. I opened the steering column housing to probe the switch terminals, and since then it hasn’t occurred. Typical
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Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #7
Quote by The Rambler

Quote by eirebus

I can't see it being a problem for the CVRT either as some cars put in a card key and then push-button start


That’s a very good point, Dave. I can see it being an issue if the testers can’t start her because they don’t have the knack, however. I’ll see if it gets worse or not. I opened the steering column housing to probe the switch terminals, and since then it hasn’t occurred. Typical


Jason, be careful of your descriptions in case you get sent down the wrong path. The barrel and key sometimes are just that and only operate the switch, they can be two separate items, so you may be able to get a new switch unit and use the old barrel, and yes it could be a dogy switch which switches off the engine when you have a lot of vibration which you may have when the revs are high for a time
.I did replace the switch only and used the old key, on a Peugeot I had when I left a coolbox plugged in with the switch in the auxiliary position it fried the switch and when I started it I could not turn it off.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #8
From what I can tell Martin, the barrel and switch is all one unit. I see them on eBay cheap enough. There is a cable harness that extends out of the barrel and connects to some terminals. I shorted the two appropriate terminals to start the engine with the key present just to bypass the switch and prove the engine still starts. Unfortunately the key would then not fail for me, so proving the ignition switch was at fault didn’t really come about. But I’m 99% sure it is.
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Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #9
Quote by The Rambler

From what I can tell Martin, the barrel and switch is all one unit. I see them on eBay cheap enough. There is a cable harness that extends out of the barrel and connects to some terminals. I shorted the two appropriate terminals to start the engine with the key present just to bypass the switch and prove the engine still starts. Unfortunately the key would then not fail for me, so proving the ignition switch was at fault didn’t really come about. But I’m 99% sure it is.


you are trying to prove that the fault is in the switch. shorting the starter wires won't help.
Do you know what is it, that stops the engine when you normally turn off the switch, in other words, what cut,s out in order to stop the engine.this is where you need to start and follow it back to the switch to look for a bad connection in a harness block. if no fault, then consider disconnecting this and supply a new temporary feed with a simple switch to turn on and off the engine, the starter will still work off the key. run it for a while to see if this clears the fault.

Have you checked is there any fault codes there seems to be a lot of problems with the wiring harness and engine management relay there is quite a bit about similar faults on HonestJohn.co.uk.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #10
If the engine doesn’t start when turning the key, then the problem is either the key/ switch or it is further down stream. Successfully starting the engine with the key bypassed where otherwise it would not have started, does prove it was the key at fault. I’m 99% certain it’s the key switch.

My original problem is not being able to start the engine when turning the key. The condition of the engine stall from a different thread, may or may not be related. But I almost certainly do have a dodgy ignition switch.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #11
Quote by sprinter

Have you checked is there any fault codes there seems to be a lot of problems with the wiring harness and engine management relay there is quite a bit about similar faults on HonestJohn.co.uk.


Of coarse I certainly can’t rule out any harness either. Removing the steering column housing and disturbing cables may well have been invasive enough to disturb an intermittent fault. Especially now that the ignition works every time. But my hunch is still with the switch as it seemed to start properly when I twisted the key a certain way. I’ll keep an eye on it for now.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #12
Might have a 4 terminal relay in the engine bay fuse box to control the starter solenoid to take the load of the ignition switch stop voltage drop
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #13
You can get your new barrel made to suit your old key. I had to change the barrell on my door following an attempted break in where they drilled the door.I got a second hand barrell and my local locksmith made it suit my keys.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #14
Now the barrel I am talking about is the ignition barrel Thornwood. If a new one could be ordered to fit my existing key that would be neat, as long as it is not too expensive. My doors don’t have key holes, just blank plates, which suits me fine.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #15
Quote by Thornwood

You can get your new barrel made to suit your old key. I had to change the barrell on my door following an attempted break in where they drilled the door.I got a second hand barrell and my local locksmith made it suit my keys.


I don't know what he did but if he did what a Guy that I used to work with years ago used to do it wouldn't be very secure. he used to put the key into any old barrel and cut off whatever tabs were sticking out to allow it to rotate.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #16
Getting off me own topic here but if my battery went dead, how would I gain entry to my vehicle? It’s keyless, fob only central locking. All door locks have blank plates. Is that common? 🤔
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #17
Quote by The Rambler

Getting off me own topic here but if my battery went dead, how would I gain entry to my vehicle? It’s keyless, fob only central locking. All door locks have blank plates. Is that common? 🤔


Yours is similar to ours Jason and we have a keyhole on the drivers side.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #18
I’d say there is a keyhole somewhere. Could be hidden under a flap or something. Unless they were taken out or covered over. As Pat said there is usually one, on either driver’s or passenger door.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #19
I’ll have another look when I get a chance
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 13.02.2020  ·  #20
Quote by The Rambler

I’ll have another look when I get a chance

On our one it is in clear view on the drivers side, there is a blank on the passengers side
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 14.02.2020  ·  #21
Yep. There it is on drivers side. Silly me. The key doesn’t work in it though. 😟
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 14.02.2020  ·  #22
Quote by The Rambler

Yep. There it is on drivers side. Silly me. The key doesn’t work in it though. 😟


Try spraying penetrating oil in it as it might never have been used, also might be a good idea to put a fresh battery in the key just incase.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 14.02.2020  ·  #23
Quote by CHAUSSON

Quote by The Rambler

Yep. There it is on drivers side. Silly me. The key doesn’t work in it though. 😟


Try spraying penetrating oil in it as it might never have been used, also might be a good idea to put a fresh battery in the key just incase.


Might be better to use Graphite spray in the actual key hole.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 15.02.2020  ·  #24
I only had some chain lubricant to hand so I used that. It worked thankfully 😁
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 15.02.2020  ·  #25
For sticking locks I run the key teeth up and down the lead of a pencil and then use it the lock, do this a few times.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 15.02.2020  ·  #26
Quote by Galldar

For sticking locks I run the key teeth up and down the lead of a pencil and then use it the lock, do this a few times.


Never heard of that one. It sounds like a good tip. 👍
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 15.02.2020  ·  #27
Used to do that with metal zips. For easy access
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 16.02.2020  ·  #28
Quote by TommyS

Used to do that with metal zips. For easy access


Did she never notice the pencil line up her back.
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Re: Changing out ignition switch

 ·  Posted: 17.02.2020  ·  #29
I take it then graphite is a good dry lubricant.

Getting back on topic, ahem. So if I was to change the ignition switch, I’d have a new key set, which even if it was programmed correctly, the keys would not match the door locks physically. I think the best thing in that scenario would be to keep the two sets of keys. One for door locks and remote central locking. The other for ignition, but would require removing the RFID transponder chip from the original key, to the new ignition key to operate the immobiliser.

For now my ignition seems solid. So I won’t bother replacing it until I’m sure it needs replacing. If it ever lets me down, I’m confident I can bypass it.
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