Insurance insanity

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Insurance insanity

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Posted: 03.12.2019  ·  #1
hi guys, has anyone under the age of 25 managed to insure a campervan? I can't find anything 😖 is insuring the campervan as a commercial vehicle the only option? It is risky since the insurance might not cover damages if the conversion has not been disclosed as far as I know... I have also been thinking of insuring it in another country, is that illegal?

I haven't even bought a van yet I just don't know which route to take... is converting it into a campervan on paper even worth it if I can't insure it in the end? its a long and painful and costly process.... :( I wanna have the campervan as my main vehicle too and live in it for college. Guys im so stuck I tried so much for so long and its making me go crazy and depressed i need to move out from this crazy house

Thanks so much in advance!!


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 03.12.2019  ·  #2
Under 25, I don't think you can ☹


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 03.12.2019  ·  #3
I would convert to camper and keep it as a van on the log book . Totally legal


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 03.12.2019  ·  #4
Quote by Motorhome Craic

Under 25, I don't think you can ☹


^ pls don't say that, you are scaring me :'( I MUST find a way and insurances refusing me because I'm under 25 is racism haha for real though, its not fair...

@cowboy70 - will they let me go through the DOE even though its a campervan but a van on the logbook?? and in case of a crash I will not be covered either? :( Thx for this word of wisdom friend


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on Insurance insanity

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Posted: 03.12.2019  ·  #5
Who is going to insure a commercial van for someone who dose not have a C2 or company vat no.?
Is anyone insuring commercial vehicles privately?
I don't think so.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 03.12.2019  ·  #6
I have a van insured commercially being self employed and i was never asked for anything like a C2 or VAT no or any documentation whatsoever relating to self employment when insuring a van commercially and i have been insuring vans for the past 20 years. However if you are not self employed and do not have any paper work to show you are then taxing a van commercially is a a different story and unless you work for someone who can sign a form stating that you need the van for work you will struggle to tax it commercially and depending on the engine size of the van,taxing it privately will be expensive if it is a 2.5 litre or bigger. Thats my experience with vans anyway. When i taxed the last one i got in 2017 i had to give the motor tax office a lot of information plus they also check the wording on your insurance cert to be sure.. I dont think that you can insure a commercial vehicle privately anyway.

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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 03.12.2019  ·  #7
So we have established that:


  • Under 25 years old, you cannot insure a campervan
  • You cannot insure a van privately
  • You cannot tax a commercial vehicle commercially without a VAT no.
  • You cannot NCT a commercial vehicle - it needs to be done as a commercial vehicle or camper (CVRT)


So, it would appear that the odds are against you. However, something like a VW Caravelle or Shuttle might work. A Ford Tourneo would be another option. These are people carriers, or a mini bus if you wish, and it is possible to tax and insure these privately. The advantage of these is that should you ever convert to a camper on the logbook in future, or when you are over 25, no VRT is payable to the conversion.



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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #8
I'm driving Van's all my life and still do if you work or are self employed tax is 333 per year as commercial and if like your self your in college or dont work the van will be put in your name as a private vehicle so tax will be 730 a year...... fact 100%

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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #9
Quote by cowboy70

I'm driving Van's all my life and still do if you work or are self employed tax is 333 per year as commercial and if like your self your in college or dont work the van will be put in your name as a private vehicle so tax will be 730 a year...... fact 100%


That is my take on it too, I have been driving commercial vans and jeeps for years and the last time I changed one I had to go through hoops to commercially tax it. I don’t think you need a vat number, you could be a sole trader under the vat qualifying threshold and still get commercial tax, you need to show you are trading in your tax returns. Most Farmers are not vat registered yet qualify for commercial tax.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #10
Is there anything simple for you guys in RoI? 🥴


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #11
Quote by cowboy70

I'm driving Van's all my life and still do if you work or are self employed tax is 333 per year as commercial and if like your self your in college or dont work the van will be put in your name as a private vehicle so tax will be 730 a year...... fact 100%


How does private tax come to €730 on a van taxed privately I wonder? If taxed privately then it would be based on engine size, no ?

How about insurance - would private insurance be possible on a commercial vehicle ? Or does taxing it privately no longer classify it as a commercial vehicle ?

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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #12
Quote by Motorhome Craic

Is there anything simple for you guys in RoI? 🥴


No !


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nsurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #13
To put some of this together. Please feel free to copy and post any corrections and extra conditions you know about

To insurance and tax a commercial vehicle you need to be.

A company and need a van for use in the course business.
A subcontractor ( C2 ) who uses a van to carry out their work.
Self-employed who can also prove they need it, to carry out their work like ( cowboy70, CHAUSSON, jackman, )

Yes, you can convert a commercial vehicle to a camper and still ensure and tax it as a commercial. It would have to be DOE, not CVRT and I don't think either of them cares, what's inside so long as it's roadworthy,
But I don't think you would be insured to use it as a camper and the law would look to see if your policy covered you to go camping.
You cannot insue a camper to use as your regular vehicle or live in it permanently you need to have another vehicle policy to get camper insurance.

Since Setanta went bust, I don't know if any of the ROI insurance companies will cover a commercial vehicle privately.

I also can't see why Revenue will allow a commercial to be taxed privately at a different rate than a big-engined car or jeep

( I'm under 25 is racism haha for real though, it's not fair.) It's actually Ageism and it's allowed in this Country, outside Employment

( Is there anything simple for you guys in RoI? 🥴 ) They allow you to Pay Taxes and Die, sometimes in Poverty,


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #14
Quote by airhead_eire

Quote by cowboy70

I'm driving Van's all my life and still do if you work or are self employed tax is 333 per year as commercial and if like your self your in college or dont work the van will be put in your name as a private vehicle so tax will be 730 a year...... fact 100%


How does private tax come to €730 on a van taxed privately I wonder? If taxed privately then it would be based on engine size, no ?

How about insurance - would private insurance be possible on a commercial vehicle ? Or does taxing it privately no longer classify it as a commercial vehicle ?


My van is insurance as commercial and on log book as private at 733 a year and doe every with no problem


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #15
We looked into all these permutations when we first bought our base van before we converted it to a camper.
You can get a van insured as a private vehicle but don't expect it to be cheap, even though I had been insured in various forms for nearly twenty years and had a car insured in my own name I was still quoted on average €5500 to insure it. Then taxed privately was going to be €700 odd as it is still based on engine size not emissions.

In the end as we bought the van new from Fiat they were able to get one of their guys to drive it to Vanderlust on trade plates with their insurance, then it was covered with Vanderlust while the conversion took place. I was then able to register, tax and insure it from the start as a camper. Cost €290 for the driver.

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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #16
Quote by airhead_eire

Quote by Motorhome Craic

Is there anything simple for you guys in RoI? 🥴


No !



We simply pay for everything and get nothing 😠


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #17
Quote by StephenC

We looked into all these permutations when we first bought our base van before we converted it to a camper.
You can get a van insured as a private vehicle but don't expect it to be cheap, even though I had been insured in various forms for nearly twenty years and had a car insured in my own name I was still quoted on average €5500 to insure it. Then taxed privately was going to be €700 odd as it is still based on engine size not emissions.

In the end as we bought the van new from Fiat they were able to get one of their guys to drive it to Vanderlust on trade plates with their insurance, then it was covered with Vanderlust while the conversion took place. I was then able to register, tax and insure it from the start as a camper. Cost €290 for the driver.


My van in this week was 425 privately


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #18
And another point about insurance, i still have the van that i had previous to the van i now drive so i said i would enquire about insuring it as a 2nd van seeing that i am self employed as a carpenter and what did i get told? Because i own the van and it is in my name and has not been insured in the last 3 months they will not insure it under circumstances because somebody might have been driving it uninsured and on and on the story went about why they wouldn't insure it. The base point that they adopt is that you are essentially dishonest and are trying to pull a stroke on them.No word about my clean driving record for the last 40 years and a lot of them years insured with them. Pierce Doherty showed the insurance companies up for what they are really about when he challenged them on the false claims with the Public Accounts Commitee in the DAIL earlier in the year. Sick of them peddling the same story year after year. Rant over!!

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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #19
The insurance monopoly in Southern Ireland us only beaten by banks & politicians in the lying and stealing race. All 3 of them are unfit for purpose but we seem to put up with them.

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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #20
A CVRT is the latest incarnation of the DOE so are the same. The DOE name is gone now. The reason they would leave you tax a van privately is simple, they get more money out of you, for instance a Toyota Hiace is a 2.4 liter or 2.5 d4d and commercially is €333, privately is about €1000/€1100. The questions i got asked today by the insurance company about the use of the van would leave it hard to use it as a camper and still be a van for work. They are tightening up a lot on misrepresentation of the intended use of a vehicle. If anything was to go wrong and a claim followed and the van had been modified from standard one could find oneself is a pile of trouble.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #21
Quote by jackman

A CVRT is the latest incarnation of the DOE so are the same. The DOE name is gone now. The reason they would leave you tax a van privately is simple, they get more money out of you, for instance a Toyota Hiace is a 2.4 liter or 2.5 d4d and commercially is €333, privately is about €1000/€1100. The questions i got asked today by the insurance company about the use of the van would leave it hard to use it as a camper and still be a van for work. They are tightening up a lot on misrepresentation of the intended use of a vehicle. If anything was to go wrong and a claim followed and the van had been modified from standard one could find oneself is a pile of trouble.

Nothing new there, that was why we stopped using the Trooper camping 10 years ago and bought a Motorhome.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #22
Quote by jackman

A CVRT is the latest incarnation of the DOE so are the same. The DOE name is gone now. The reason they would leave you tax a van privately is simple, they get more money out of you, for instance a Toyota Hiace is a 2.4 liter or 2.5 d4d and commercially is €333, privately is about €1000/€1100. The questions i got asked today by the insurance company about the use of the van would leave it hard to use it as a camper and still be a van for work. They are tightening up a lot on misrepresentation of the intended use of a vehicle. If anything was to go wrong and a claim followed and the van had been modified from standard one could find oneself is a pile of trouble.


My van is 2.9 and insurance is only 425 and tax 733


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #23
It 's the only way. the risk nowadays aint worth it because it may not be you that causes the accident but if you are caught up inadvertently you will still find yourself in bother.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #24
Quote by cowboy70

Quote by jackman

A CVRT is the latest incarnation of the DOE so are the same. The DOE name is gone now. The reason they would leave you tax a van privately is simple, they get more money out of you, for instance a Toyota Hiace is a 2.4 liter or 2.5 d4d and commercially is €333, privately is about €1000/€1100. The questions i got asked today by the insurance company about the use of the van would leave it hard to use it as a camper and still be a van for work. They are tightening up a lot on misrepresentation of the intended use of a vehicle. If anything was to go wrong and a claim followed and the van had been modified from standard one could find oneself is a pile of trouble.


My van is 2.9 and insurance is only 425 and tax 733


How is it only €733 if it is private and 2.9 litre? Just curious.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #25
Quote by jackman

Quote by cowboy70

Quote by jackman

A CVRT is the latest incarnation of the DOE so are the same. The DOE name is gone now. The reason they would leave you tax a van privately is simple, they get more money out of you, for instance a Toyota Hiace is a 2.4 liter or 2.5 d4d and commercially is €333, privately is about €1000/€1100. The questions i got asked today by the insurance company about the use of the van would leave it hard to use it as a camper and still be a van for work. They are tightening up a lot on misrepresentation of the intended use of a vehicle. If anything was to go wrong and a claim followed and the van had been modified from standard one could find oneself is a pile of trouble.


My van is 2.9 and insurance is only 425 and tax 733


How is it only €733 if it is private and 2.9 litre? Just curious.


Probably based on emissions if newer than 2008


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #26
i have looked through the rates and i cant find €733 anywhere, be handy if i could the van private for that amount.


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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #27
As far as I'm aware any commercial van under 3.500kg and is in private use tax is only 733


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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #28
Fair enough, i stand corrected, i never knew that, i always thought that it went on engine size. Handy to know that.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #29
Quote by cowboy70

As far as I'm aware any commercial van under 3.500kg and is in private use tax is only 733


The robbing b**tatds,
An artic is only €900 a year


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #30
You couldnt make this s**t up if you tried! There is no logic whatsoever to any of it. I'd swear it depends on the mood one of those in charge wakes up in.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #31
I couldn't see the logic in €733 either until Cowboy's last post. I never knew that was the case.
Either way, the OP has probably been scared off long ago !


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 04.12.2019  ·  #32
Always something new to learn.


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 06.12.2019  ·  #33
I'm still here, as determined to move forward with my plan as before reading all of the posts above. I wouldn't consider the question to be "if" but rather "how".

This is the kind of a van I wish to convert: https://www.donedeal.ie/commer…r/23350640 (2.1L engine)
Conversion I would like to model:



I see two options:

VAN ROUTE
Although it will cost me dearly and put me in great risk and liability, after reading all the posts/calling insurers/doing research on fb pages etc. I conclude that the only way would probably be to have it insured commercially as a work van (I work on building sites, not self-employed though). I couldn't find insurance companies to insure a van privately. Another problem is that I'll be returning to full-time education in September, no idea how that would affect things with insurance. I want it insured around September and I will quit work before that, in July/August.

CAMPERVAN ROUTE
I don't see the point of going through the massive time-consuming trouble of having the van converted and officially registered as a campervan on the logbook (which is also costly; probably a grand or two?) and being confronted with the inability to insure it because of my age...(25 req. I'll be 22 at the time) and even if I got 3 refusals from insurers and got the obudsman to knock on their doors and force them to quote me, what if the quote is like 5 grand? 5 grand on top of the cost of conversion on paper (VRT) and the additional necessity of having it as a secondary vehicle... meaning that I must have my own car insured which is like 2600 euros on top of everything.

these are huge sums of money and we aren't even discussing the cost of the van nor the cost of the solar pannels/tools etc etc...its insurance alone. Is this system normal or designed to break our back financially? young people are killed with insurance costs in this country, its sickening. I don't know which route to take all I know is that I'm committed to make it work for me. its my dream! I'm not spending 7 grand+ per year for accommodation Dublin so i can study, I'd rather invest in this. I wish there was another way with this insurance situation :(

Any thoughts?


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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 06.12.2019  ·  #34
Well, commercial insurance probably won't be an issue, besides cost itself. I reckon taxing it for the first time in your name commercially might be a hurdle though regarding VAT number or whatever is required these days. I cannot offer any more opinion/info on your predicament really as I cannot think of anyway around your situation. I do hope you manage a way around it though - triumph over adversity and all that !
Oh and if your are intent on buying a Merc Sprinter, be sure to inspect for rust very, very carefully.

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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 06.12.2019  ·  #35
I know for a fact you can insure as private problem be is your age it mite be 2/3 k and to tax it is 733 not a problem as its private and doe not a problem every year . Trust me when I say the only problem I can see is the insurance quote you get because of your age after that your sailing. I did have a courier company for 25 years with 15 employed .and I also build my first camper van a ford transit 5/6 years ago and driving Van's all my life and I know all the Ins and outs I think so I think iv got a very good idea of how it all works. You can pm me if you need any advice or additional information

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Re: Insurance insanity

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Posted: 07.12.2019  ·  #36
If you are working on the building sites as a construction worker, get a letter from whom ever you are working for to say that the van is a requirement for you in your job. Insure the van commercially and take the letter and the insurance to the motor tax office and present the documentation to them and they will have to tax it for you commercially. That's the way it works from my experience. Insulate the van and put a few bits in it that wouldn't be out of place in used in a van that is used in construction, like a sink, water and a stove for boiling a kettle and a work light. Once you tax the van once commercially then you should be ok to tax it again from there on. That's the way i would go about it anyway


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