Oil Control ring

 
 
 
 
 
 
killiand
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Oil Control ring

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Posted: 08.07.2019  ·  #1
Just wondering if anyone has replaced this in their van? Had it diagnosed by a chap, and I'm on a promise of him coming out to fix it but am a couple of weeks without hearing anything so starting to contemplate alternative options. It's a 93 fiat ducato 2.5.. Thanks!


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 08.07.2019  ·  #2
Oil control rings I take it is the oil rings on the pistons.
If so, then you’d be replacing the entire lot, oil rings/compression rings and having it honed in the process......
It’s not the type of job that someone ‘calls out’ to do, it’s major surgery !
It’s best having this done as part of a very comprehensive rebuild and recon and other parts will be required in the rebuild process. It’s labor intensive and relatively expensive.


killiand
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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 08.07.2019  ·  #3
to be fair, he's been in the ford and fiat garages when they were in dublin and aircraft mechanics for years with SR after that; and is only not full time mechanic now due to personal circumstances... guess I'll wait for him to come back to me so...

Patience. In. Short. Supply... :P


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 08.07.2019  ·  #4
What Jon said.... :up:

I wouldn't let this " Chap " near it if it were mine....Not a job you do on the drive way o.O


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 08.07.2019  ·  #5
Sounds like piston rings. Are you down on power, or burning oil. I had a Vauxhall Viva that could completely fill a road with smoke when the piston rings went.
It burned so much oil that I used to put waste oil into it.


killiand
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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 08.07.2019  ·  #6
yep, smoke is only bad on start up, the rattle is on the power strokes, but she isn't missing a beat other than that.


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 08.07.2019  ·  #7
Maybe the injectors need cleaning


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 09.07.2019  ·  #8
What JJF says is correct ,you are doing a rebuild and the bore should be checked to see if it is oval ,if it is too much, it is then a waste of time and money. If it is O.K. then remember to make sure that the ring gaps are on opposite sides otherwise you will get blow past and use oil


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 09.07.2019  ·  #9
Smoky on startup could be a result of worn valve stem seals. That'd be the first place I'd look!


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 09.07.2019  ·  #10
Does it have a turbo? could be seals in the turbo.

Either way I'd keep buying oil. It's a lot cheaper than an engine rebuild.


killiand
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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 09.07.2019  ·  #11
Sorry, to take a step back... the primary issue is a rattle in the engine that is in time with the pistons (increases with acceleration) . The timing etc is singing, and there's no turbo! Smoke isn't bad, present on startup but I've only been starting it to keep things moving while she's lying up, and hasn't had a good drive. Plus I didn't actually notice any yesterday after replacing oil and fuel filters.


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 09.07.2019  ·  #12
Killiand, those older 2.5 are old school technology, mine is the turbo version.
There is a few issues with them, but all in all they are a sturdy old lump.
They will Smoke on startup and run uneven if the pump timing is retarded, even by a small amount.... however retarded pump timing won’t cause a ‘diesel knock’ like you explain, but too advanced pump timing will.
Need to establish if it’s a ‘diesel knock’ or a ‘mechanical knock’ you’re experiencing. A mechanical knock in time with the pistons like you say can be crankshaft bearing wear or wee end bearing wear.... not likely with those if the oil has been changed frequently.
Diesel knock can be, like I said timing on the pump, leaking injectors (will cause smoke) or governor issues in the injector pump.
It’s a 12 valve engine, if oil had infrequent changes the likelihood is that the cam lobes will be worn, this has the result of hydraulic lifters being extended and causing a rattle which will increase with engine rpm... also will lead to power loss and retarded valve timing.
Smoke can be from worn valve stem seals like previously mentioned but you can establish yourself if it is using oil, how much and over what miles/hours use.
When I got my van the previous owner was a Diy’er who caused more trouble than good.....
I rebuilt it and replaced, Rings and honed cylinders (little wear), rebuilt the head and fitted new camshaft and followers, replaced white metal bearing although they were OK, fitted new oil pump and drive chain, had injectors redone and injector pump benched and set, fitted new coolant radiator and heater matrix, new water pump and new timing gear, had turbo updated and boost control increased to 1.7 bar.... It now starts perfectly, no smoke, uses no oil nor water, pulls like a train with the turbo upgrade and I’d trust it to drive it to hell and back, no stupid electronics to worry about and if looked after will run for ever.
Have yours looked at and get a report on its condition and take it from there, all parts are available and I got mine from a dedicated supplier in Lithuania via the Internet.
If the van is good then a proper rebuild is worth it.


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 09.07.2019  ·  #13
Quote by killiand

Sorry, to take a step back... the primary issue is a rattle in the engine that is in time with the pistons (increases with acceleration) . The timing etc is singing, and there's no turbo! Smoke isn't bad, present on startup but I've only been starting it to keep things moving while she's lying up, and hasn't had a good drive. Plus I didn't actually notice any yesterday after replacing oil and fuel filters.


A vibration more than a knocking noise came into my little Kubota tractor last month, turned out the crankshaft was hanging out of it, I was going to rebuild the bottom end but I was quoted €1700 for the engineering work and parts alone and that was rebuilding it myself, so that knocked that on the head as the Tractor wasn't worth much more. I bought a mobile generator with a good engine and bad genny since so going to transplant that engine into it when I get a chance.

Hope things work out better for you Killiand, even though the little kubota is only 750cc parts are mental for them. Fiat parts are more reasonable.


killiand
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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 09.07.2019  ·  #14
Perhaps ignorance is bliss, but I have a strong faith that if I can get a hold of him, it'll all be sorted.. also the camshaft is in perfect nick!


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 02.08.2019  ·  #15
Did you find out what was causing the rattle/smoke Killian?


killiand
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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 02.08.2019  ·  #16
Haven't had himself back out, tough man to get a hold of! Was on my to do list this week to follow up, but will be next week now!


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Oil Control ring

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Posted: 02.08.2019  ·  #17
Killian have you been out at all this year what about holidays.


killiand
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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 03.08.2019  ·  #18
The aim is a week in September, 2.5 in October and maybe one in vlnovember 😊 but they're not dependent on the control ring 😏


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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 03.08.2019  ·  #19
have you decided not to change up?


killiand
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Re: Oil Control ring

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Posted: 03.08.2019  ·  #20
I'd like to say my lips are sealed.... But they're far from that, just hoping to have news soon 😊


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