Kenmare

Notification of a planning application for a motorhome park in Kenmare was forwarded to me recently. The application mentioned reception area, toilets and showers plus a laundry room, buts strangely no mention of a services bay.

When discussing the proposals with the developer it turned out that he had been advised by consultants in Northern Ireland and was following their recommendations regarding the nature of what should be provided. The net result is to be a development similar to a 5* camping and caravan park. The capitol investment is expected to require an overnight charge in the region of €25 to enable eventual profitability.

Obviously there are 'experts' out there who do not understand just what a motorhome parking place is and the minimal services required.
Kenmare is a beautiful town to spend a night or two in so lets hope we eventually see an offering similar to what's available in Ardmore, Cobh and Carlingford to name just three if the best examples in Ireland.

Why would anyone expect anything different , that is Healy-Rae country.

@baguette

Can you PM whom the advisors were? Very interested to find out where this mis-information is coming from and see if I can make contact.

That price also tells that its a caravan park, and not a bad price as things go. But its not a motorhome stopover.

Thanks, but I think, unfortunately, it will be fruitless for myself to contact them.

All the information the Council needs is HERE (click HERE)

There is probably a bigger tourist grant or tax write off for a caravan park.
You won't get much of a claim for a piece of concrete with a holes in the middle and a manhole at the side.
You're in fixer country after all.

This sketch sums up Irish politics for me perfectly !

Developer.

No such thing as bad advertising................................ it will surly be a well known Aire by the time the discussions are over !


I have contacted the developer on behalf of MHC and it's members.

At this point, I agree with Colin about it being 'too much' for a Motorhome stopover, but if that's what the developer wants and it is his private land then that is up to him. I will await a reply if it is forthcoming.

The concept seems similar to the growing trend in France (often outside campsites) to provide Aires with individual, bookable pitches with WiFi and other features within a barrier controlled piece of ground.

http://en.airecampingcar.com

Whilst it might not appeal to everyone, there is obviously a market for it. Choice is all, and I think the push to try and obtain standard ‘french’ style free or cheap parking should continue. The concept of pub/restaurant overnight provision is equally valid.

I firmly believe that the growth in motorhoming in Ireland and the likely increase in foreign vans on the back of improving facilities will produce more parking of varied types in the future, and the more provision, the better.

Davy

Well said.

Surely a lively debate is what the site is about.

I have'nt been to Kenmare in the van but it was on my list for a visit next year. I believe there are several unofficial spots there which are used for overnight parking at present.

I feel the reason there seems to be opposition to this proposed new Campsite is that existing parking places that exist in Kenmare at present will be stopped when the new site opens. This has happened before in other areas fuelled by camp site owners.

The proposed development in Kenmare is quiet small with approx. 14 pitches. I imagine it will be booked out during the summer and unable to cater for the amount of campers that actually visit Kenmare. It would then seem unreasonable for the local Council to clamp down on the existing parking spots, in my opinion.

Personally I think we should welcome any development which cater for Motorhomes. At least it shows that some people realise their value to local communities and the additional revenue they create.

I think its good to see groups coming together and forgetting about past hurts.
At the end of the day our objectives are the same. Enjoying our hobby and having a good trip whenever we can get away.

Well 'retired and loving it' It's nice to be attacked at a personal level.
BTW I'm not the P.R.O. of The Phoenix Motorhome Club. The clubs rally activities and venues should be of no concern to anyone except its members. I don't understand why you considered them relevant to this issue.

I'm not attacking any person or persons, it's not my style. It wasn't I who brought names into this discussion, either here or on FB.

It's the new concept I don't understand and from that lack of understanding find it hard to support, perhaps I need some enlightenment.
Please consider that I have been caravanning since the early 80's and touring Europe by motorhome for over 12 years now with over 120.000km under my belt and thousands of nights away, spent in caravan and camping sites and Aires, Stellplatz, Aree di Sostas and Área de Autocaravanas et al . I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly.

The issue I have is with the creation of an alternative motorhome parking product unique to Ireland. Where does this new concept of a fully serviced motorhome park in the same mould as a traditional caravanning and camping park fit in the scheme of things. How is it to be sold to a motorhome based tourist who from experience throughout mainland Europe is seeking a facility based on the now common Aire de Stationnement pour Camping-car concept, of which there are over 20,000, or a traditional caravanning and camping park.

As I've said, the best of luck to the developer in Kenmare. However my only concern is this new concept will be detrimental to the expansion of the network of Aires in Ireland and will also add to the confusion which exists as to what exactly is being proposed when we talk to local authorities and private developers, who may be considering providing motorhome parking for their city/town/village.
Budgets are tight for most and particularly so for local authorities and it is in everyone interest to keep things simple and as low cost as practical. Low cost need not equate to low quality.

I simply do not understand the rational behind this new 'motorhome park' concept.
Where is the demand, apart from a few who do not want to poo or shower in their own facilities. Visit any of the Aires in Europe and Ireland and you will find them full with people who have no issue with that.

If I want a nice grass or clay pitch with hedges or fences, toilets, showers, ehu, water on pitch, laundry room etc. i will choose a campsite and pay the going rate.
If I don't, I will use the facilities on board and use an Aire and pay the fee required, which usually ranges from free to €10/12.
It's a simple choice.
As for a third option

Jim there is the possibility that the cool reception that this project has received by MHC is an indication that quite a lot of motorhomers are just looking for a simple parking area with minimal facilities and at a decent charge.
Now this does not make it wrong for those that want this kind of a setup at an inflated price and if this individual is spending his own money then he is entitled to do that but the issue will be, are there enough people who will use it to make it viable?

Am I missing something here?

Is this development not just a new Campsite facilty albeit limited to Motorhomes?
Are we not all Motorhome owners here or is there some argument because caravans or camping will not be allowed?

From what I can see from this proposed development seems to be aimed at giving a secure, 1st class overnight parking facility within 5mins walk to the centre of Kinsale. If the fee to stay is no greater than a regular Campsite then what seems to be the problem?

Surely the Developer has looked into the payback and perhaps is more interested in bringing people into the Town than making a killing.

Sure, some people might not want to sh*t or shower in their van and if polled I bet the percentage of owners who prefer to use external toilet facilities is a lot greater than a few.
None of the Aires provide toilet facilities other that a means to empty cassettes. €10 to a poor farmer to park in the middle of a field is no great value.

For those who would prefer to have better facilities and are willing to pay for it then roll on this development.

Personally I generally wildcamp and only use campsites when the location or situation suits. The option to have facilities available if rquired surely cannot be a disadvantage.

I know none of the people involved in this and have no interest in it other than not to agree with some of the comments.

Sort of agree Erazmus, the guy obviously has his homework done and thinks there is an opening for such a venture, I suppose time will tell.

It’s not unusual that these so called “experts” consultants are very much hit and miss in these things as they generally never have been in business themselves and haven’t put up their own capital for anything business related in their life and in any case they don’t have the balls to do it anyway but recon they know better, I certainly hope this business proposal isn’t built solely on their expertise.

It’s a different product offering, a bit too close to a campsite model if truth be told, but still it’s another option for the motorhoming community and that in itself is to be welcomed. It doesn’t conform to the usual expectations of an Aire, but as another poster has stated, ‘it isn’t an aire’ .... so let’s wait and see, market forces, pricing structure and the motorhome community continued and regular participation in such a venture will determine its success or otherwise.

I don’t know the developer/consultants nor even the area, but I wish it every success.

On an aside, while criticism, constructive or otherwise is welcomed and to be encouraged in a debate, I and no doubt others find personal attracks and derogatory comments somewhat not in keeping with a community that generally have comradely and friendship as a prerequisite to being a member. Let’s try and keep it that way shall we.

Here here JJF, MHC has been very good at debating and let us hope that it stays that way for many years to come.
From time to time we will have our differences of opinion but that is when it is time to move on.

Personal I welcome any development for the touring trade, be it MH, caravan, camping etc.
By individuals risking their own money to start a new business in this country, I will be the first person to take my hat off and congratulate them on their efforts.
This wonderful Republic of ours, is a greed so in so. The amount of state and private agencies looking for a piece of a business person pie is boarding on criminal racketeering. If you are in doubt, watch David Mc Williams on Tv3 for an education.
With regard to the design aspects of the proposed development, it is only a proposal, a concept. The reality is the finished product will be different to the proposed plan because the council will have their own policy and concepts to follow. If the developer it smart and done their homework, they should have an idea of the council policy and taken some of the council opinion into their design
I have never been to Kenmare but for all that I know maybe the sewerage plant in Kenmare can't handle MH toilet chemicals. Possibly a dump station is not an option. I am only saying this for the purpose of debate.
The major thing here for future reference, is the council views on the project and their recommendations.
To be a successful lobbyist, you must be well informed of your opposite views and opinions. I believe that this is a project to observe because if it is successful and planning permission is granted then MH will vote with their feet or wheels. If people feel that the price per night in unfair then they will be gone but if the services provided exceed people expectations then it will be difficult to get a booking .
Just my thoughts,
Malcolm.
Ps, I am all about a debate but I do not want to witness a pissing contest again on mhc.

I have sat back and watched the debate unfold so now I’m putting my tuppence in.

This facility is possibly not the first of its kind, there is one in the north. This one, which a few on here have been to, is both in competition to the campsites and in a tourist area. The council are now removing the ability for Motorhomes to park, but, it has not been the facility which has caused that, it has been the inconsiderate actions of motorhomers along with the misconceptions of the general public.

The motorhome facility I am referring to is in Newcastle and while some time back we applauded the efforts of the individuals who persevered through beauocricy to get it up and running how many have actually went and both stayed and paid for the facilities provided. I know I haven’t so can’t confirm the exact facilities and the quality of the overall provision.

So a third option has potentially already been set up, it has not closed sites, it has not closed “wild” camping spots, it is still in business. While some like the idea and others don’t and should this facility get the green light we as a collective will either support it or ignore it. It will not take away the ability to keep lobbying the councils and tourist boards for dedicated parking areas at little or no cost similar to Cobh and I don’t think it will make the job of doing so anymore difficult as the proposed development is not an Aire it’s a campsite which is restricted to Motorhomes. The restrictions in clientele, the location around domestic property and proximity to free flowing water will make it very difficult to get the project passed the various agencies and residents, one small newt or a bat and it may go nowhere. It is down to the planning/council departments and if there are credible objections or approvals for the project to go ahead or not.