Power sources

Dave s

Subject:

Power sources

· Posted: 18.09.2016 · #1

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice on which power source would be the better option to go for between an inverter run from the battery or a generator. It would be powering the usual things as in phone chargers, laptops, hair dryers/ straightener and possibly the fridge obviously not all at the same time . Any advice/ suggestions would be much appreciated

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 18.09.2016 · #2

The biggest eater is the hair drier. We have a 2kw inverter which is loads for everything, except the hair drier, so when it's being used I turn the engine on and there are no issues. The inverter sits somewhere discreet and out of sight out of mind, it can be used 24/7. The generator has to be lifted in and out, can only be used in sociable hours and you need to have fuel for it. Then of course, the noise, the extra weight, the inconvenience.......

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 18.09.2016 · #3

The largest user from your list is probably the hair dryer. These can be as high as 2000 watts and will draw close to 200 amps from your battery. This will potentially kill the battery in a very short time. I have a 2000 watt invertor connected to the engine battery. It just manages to operate a 1800 watt hair dryer. I only operate at that load with the engine running, it takes SWMBO about 10 minutes to dry hair.

The cigarette lighter socket will only run about 150 watts maximum but this should be adequate for phone charging etc. If you need more power than that then a permanent invertor installation with correctly sized cables is essential. Also ensure you fit an isolating switch on the 12volt supply to the invertor. The invertor draws current even if there is no load on the output and would discharge a battery overnight.

The fridge can run on gas so IMHO there should be no need to require an electrical supply.

I don't favour a generator due to weight, space, carrying petrol, noise.

I think you first target should be to identify what devices are essential and then work from the total load you will have at any time. Come back for more info when you have a clearer route forward.

Dave s

Subject:

Re: Power sources

· Posted: 19.09.2016 · #4

Thanks for the comments, looks like I'm heading the inverter route, any suggestions on a make or model to look at or more importantly ones to avoid. Thanks in advance , Dave

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 19.09.2016 · #5

I have both a 2kw Honda Generator and a 2,000 watt inverter. To be honest I have never yet used the Generator as I've got a solar panel on the roof. My wife has a 1200 watt hairdryer and the inverter is able to run that.if you don't have a solar panel then I would suggest a Generator would best meet your needs.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 19.09.2016 · #6

Hair drying sorted, no power needed.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oXPl…+1920s.jpg

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 19.09.2016 · #7

I have an idea for blow drying hair which requires no appliances and is already on most vans. I have had the idea for a long time just haven't got around to trying it yet

The blow heating ducting, get a length of that with some sort of attachment to fit a blow heating outlet, close all other vents and put heating on to dry your hair. An inbuilt hair dryer.

If you try it before I do, let me know how you get on

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 19.09.2016 · #8

Quote by kabundi

I was thinking about fitting a 2KW inverter to run a 600w microwave. I don't have a solar panel and would prefer not to have fit one.
If the inverter was connected to the engine battery, as Kabundi has done, and the engine was running while using the microwave, would the alternator be able to supply the inverter without depleting the engine battery?
Would there be any danger of running down the engine battery?

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 19.09.2016 · #9

We run a 2500watt inverter of the engine battery, for hairdryer which is around 800 watt.

We start the engine, let it run for 30 seconds before switching the inverter on, then leave it running for a couple of minutes after we turn inverter off, have had no problems.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 19.09.2016 · #10

Quote by Douzeper

Great. Thanks for that!

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 21.09.2016 · #11

I did a few tests this morning on my system. The engine battery voltage was read on the habitation control unit.

With the engine stopped the engine battery voltage was 12.6, with engine running the voltage rose to 14.5 volts. The voltage stayed at 14.5 volts up to a load of 500watts. It then dropped to 14.3 at 700watts, 14.2 at 900watts, 13.6 at 1200 watts and 11.5 at 2000watts.

This suggests that the alternator can supply loads up to about 500watts without battery discharge, there is some battery discharge up to about 1200watts and significant battery discharge above 1200watts. The engine rpm remained constant over all the tests at 800rpm but the engine tone changed each time as the load increased above 200watts

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 21.09.2016 · #12

Thanks for all the facts but what's you're conclusion from all the data?

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 21.09.2016 · #13

Jack

Assuming that you start with a fully charged battery and run the engine while using the inverter. These comments are gut feel rather than based on science.

A load up to about 500 watts can be used for say up to an hour.

A load up to about 900 watts can be used for say 30 minutes.

A load up to about 1200 watts can be used for about 15 minutes.

A load above 1200 watts should only be used for a few minutes at a time.

Looks like I need to get SWMBO a lower powered hairdryer. LOL

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 21.09.2016 · #14

The last sentence was what I wanted to know. Lol

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 21.09.2016 · #15

Great bit of research there Kabundi.
I am going to go with the inverter and run the engine as suggested for the period its being used.
I have to chance a 1500W inverter though as the space I want to fit it to limits me size wise and I haven't been able to source a 2000W Inverter small enough.
The running load on the 600W microwave I want to use is 1100W, so fingers crossed.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 21.09.2016 · #16

Erasmus

Make sure you do the following:

Keep 12 volt cables between battery and inverter short (around 1m if you can)
Use large cross section cables, at least 50mm. sq.
Fit an isolator switch in the connection between the battery and inverter, turn the inverter off when not in use as it draws 12 volt current even if there is no load on the 240 volt side.

I have a Ducato, the isolator switch is fitted to the passenger seat 'box' with the lever projecting into the doorwell.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 22.09.2016 · #17

Thanks Kabundi.
Going to keep it under drivers seat beside engine battery and have Kill Switch got to fit.
Thanks for all the info.
Rgds.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 22.09.2016 · #18

Quote by Erazmus

Thanks Kabundi.
Going to keep it under drivers seat beside engine battery and have Kill Switch got to fit.
Thanks for all the info.
Rgds.

Don't forget to ensure the unit has sufficient ventilation for the work it will be doing, you don't want it tripping out from over-temperature.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 23.09.2016 · #19

Think Allys idea on the inbuilt hair dryer very good.
But without going to any trouble, I was thinking of telling the wife to wash her hair just before we move on and then lie on the floor with her head under the dash.
With the heater on full blast, sure the hair would be dry in no time.
Will let you know how I get on, from the A&E in Craigavon.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 24.09.2016 · #20

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 26.09.2016 · #21

I'm interested to know will a inventer run a microwave oven mainly for heating meals or will it run down the batteries I have two batteries apart from the engine barrery

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 26.09.2016 · #22

Quote by Dermot Veighey

I'm interested to know will a inventer run a microwave oven mainly for heating meals or will it run down the batteries I have two batteries apart from the engine barrery

As usual it depends on the amount of power it needs. Anything that produces heat burns up the energy faster. Some microwaves are rated as low as 600w and I think if the engine was running it would be fine. There are those on here that know a lot more than me on the subject though.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 26.09.2016 · #23

Thank you.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 26.09.2016 · #24

I have read on forums that a microwave needs a 'spike' of high power at the start of use before settling to its rated wattage. Obviously this is fine on mains hookup, perhaps others on the forum can relate their experiences on inverter.

Davy

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 29.09.2016 · #25

Fitted 1500W Inverter to Engine Battery today.
Initial test, it runs a 700W Microwave no problem. Ran it for 5mins or so with no sign of heating to the Inverter.
Also tried an 1100W Travel Hairdryer and it also runs that without a problem.
Needless to say, had engine running at the time.
No obvious depletion of the battery.
Will test it out more over the weekend.

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Subject:

What Inverter?

· Posted: 03.10.2016 · #26

Thinking of getting a 2000W inverter but confused with the amount of choice. If it's mainly for hair dryer and possibly microwave is a "pure sine wave" type preferable.There is also a vast difference in the price range. Is there a particular make that is deemed more reliable?

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 03.10.2016 · #27

Definitely go for a pure sine wave, it will power more things than a modified sine wave one. Yes they are more expensive. I have a dometic 1Kw one not sure what make others have.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 04.10.2016 · #28

I fitted a 1500W modified sine wave Inverter.
I also looked at pure sine wave Inverters but as I only wanted it to run a 700W basic Microwave and a Hair dryer I couldn't justify the extra cost.

The one I bought was on Ebay:-

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/3012376…EBIDX%3AIT

I used it at the weekend for the Microwave for approx. 10mins with absolutely no problem. The inverter did not even get warm and the Microwave worked perfectly. I also tried it with a 1100W Hair dryer without any problem.

As the Controller says though, if you want to run sensitive electronic equipment, then the pure sine wave Inverter is the better option as it gives a much purer output.
If you are just running basic enough gear then a modified sine wave Inverter should suffice.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 12.10.2016 · #29

HI Erazmus

Just curious, did you install the inverter to your leisure or main battery?

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 12.10.2016 · #30

Quote by nipper

HI Erazmus

Just curious, did you install the inverter to your leisure or main battery?

Hi Nipper,

I installed the Inverter to the Main Battery.

I used 35s Copper, Panel Flex and 35s Lugs, which are available in any Electrical Wholesalers. I fitted a kill switch between the Battery and the Inverter which I turn off when the Inverter is not being used.

I have used it several times since fitted and it works a treat.

I run the Engine while the Inverter is in use. Usually it would be used for about 10 mins. to either heat up food in the Microwave or while the other half drys her hair.

After 10 mins. the Inverter barely gets warm and it does not appear to have any effect on the charge to the battery.

Hope this is of help,
Rgds.
Pete

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 12.10.2016 · #31

Hi Pete

Sorry for all the questions. Was the cable length an issue, or is your starter battery in the cab?

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 12.10.2016 · #32

Quote by nipper

Hi Pete

Sorry for all the questions. Was the cable length an issue, or is your starter battery in the cab?

My Battery is under the drivers seat, and there was room beside it to fit the Inverter, so the cable lenghts were very short, . After 10 mins use the cables don't even get warm.

If you have longer cable runs, say to the engine compartment, you would need to up the size of the cable to 50s.

Rgds,
Pete

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Subject:

mobile hair dryer

· Posted: 25.10.2016 · #33

Quote by Douzeper

I have an idea for blow drying hair which requires no appliances and is already on most vans. I have had the idea for a long time just haven't got around to trying it yet

Ok just for the fun of it
The Propex HS2000E heater delivers- Heat Output: 1.9kW on Gas 500w, 1kW, 2kW on electric and delivers 60 C.F.M. Air Throughput: equals 102 cu/mt/hr
The hair Drier 1800 watts ( 1.8 kW ) airflow ( Throughput ) 110 cu/mt /hr. equal to 64.7C.F.M

Amount: 1 cubic foot per minute (cu ft/min) of flow rate
Equals: 1.70 cubic meters per hour (m3/h) in flow rate

So if you attach a vacuum cleaner hose to the outlet of the van heater you are getting close a mobile hairdryer.
probable cheaper then an inverter too.

Mart.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 25.10.2016 · #34

See I knew it would work

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 25.10.2016 · #35

Quote by martsusie

Quote by Douzeper

I have an idea for blow drying hair which requires no appliances and is already on most vans. I have had the idea for a long time just haven't got around to trying it yet

Great synopsis.
Only problem I can see is you would have to buy a vacuum cleaner.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 26.10.2016 · #36

Would a 4Kw inverter drain the battery quicker that a 2Kw one, on the same appliance?
Is one better fitted to the engine battery or the leisure battery, or does it matter?

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 26.10.2016 · #37

Quote by presstout1

Would a 4Kw inverter drain the battery quicker that a 2Kw one, on the same appliance?

In theory no, depending how good a quality the inverter is.

Quote by presstout1

Is one better fitted to the engine battery or the leisure battery, or does it matter?

I'm no expert on inverters or anything electrical

But I think that is personal choice and how you intend to use it.

In my experience an inverter of a big wattage should never be run, when not on EHU, without the engine started. Our last inverter was off the leisure batteries, we started the engine, ran the equipment we needed, then left the engine running for about a minute or so afterwards to try and replace any lost charge if there was any.

This time we have the same inverter (2500Kw) running of the engine battery and do the same thing.

If it was a small inverter and you were going to run it without starting the engine, maybe to charge a laptop or phone, then it would be better running of the leisure batteries.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 26.10.2016 · #38

See posts 11 and 13 above.

IMO an inverted above 1kW should be fitted to the engine battery and the engine run while using it as described in above posts.

A 4kW inverter will draw about 400amps from the battery if on full load.

There will be a very similar draw from the battery running any given load from either a 4kW or a 2kW unit.

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Re: Power sources

· Posted: 27.10.2016 · #39

Thanks for the answers.
I have bought an unused 4Kw Sunshine pure sine wave one from a sharpening mate in England.
He was going to fit it to a van to go mobile, but changed his mind.
I thought, at the price, I would chance it & maybe rig up some quick release setup so I could use it in the MH & in my van.

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