Fitting Lithium

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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 28.01.2023  ·  #81
Sok is my one has bluetooth & heater so suitable for the colder climate,

Im charging with 200watt solar & 100/30 victron charge controller
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 28.01.2023  ·  #82
Quote by mad max

Sok is my one has bluetooth & heater so suitable for the colder climate,

Im charging with 200watt solar & 100/30 victron charge controller


Your not using EHU to charge just solar
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 28.01.2023  ·  #83
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my main concern with lithium is doing damage to the Schault EBL control system in the van


Why do you think a lithium battery would do damage to the EBL ? I can't think of a single reason why it would !
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 28.01.2023  ·  #84
I just thought it would mess up the ebl monitoring of the van electrics ,it would also trickle charge the litium which is not good
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 28.01.2023  ·  #85
Quote by eirebus

I just thought it would mess up the ebl monitoring of the van electrics ,it would also trickle charge the litium which is not good


No shouldn't mess up anything.... as far as power output is concerned lithium is just a 12v battery just like the lead-acid battery its replacing so very little chance of it doing as sort of damage ... it will last longer and charge faster.
As for the trickle charge if you set the EBL to gel It will not fully charge it but again will do no harm .
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 28.01.2023  ·  #86
Mine is the sok .. with 200 Watts solar and have no problem with charging ....we haven't used it for more than 3 or 4 days at a time come home and go back out and it's charged up again that's just driving and solar we use ehu here and there as well and all good 👍
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.02.2023  ·  #87
Is there a way of measuring the SOC of litium batteries or do you have to get one with Bluetooth
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.02.2023  ·  #88
It comes up on the mppt charge controller! On mine anyway
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.02.2023  ·  #89
You csn get an add on soc monitor 👍🏽
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 06.03.2023  ·  #90
Have changed to a litium battery, only away 1 night so far with TV , lights and the heating on most of the night, only used 20% of battery power which was recharged on the journey home, the difference in the weight is amazing 11.5 kg compared to 48 kg for the lead one's
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Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 06.03.2023  ·  #91
Have you only fitted one. What did you do about charging it, trough the ELB220. Or something else?
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 06.03.2023  ·  #92
What size did you fit?
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 06.03.2023  ·  #93
Quote by sprinter

Have you only fitted one. What did you do about charging it, trough the ELB220. Or something else?


I'm charging it through the EBL on a gel setting which will bring it up to 95% and the solar takes it up to 100% , the solar is wired directly to the battery
I got a 100ah battery as that is the only one I can fit
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 06.03.2023  ·  #94
How much solar power do you have Dave? We have 200w solar and find it sufficient for one litium battery we have been out for 3 days last time and never went below 70% on the same kind of power draw 😁
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 06.03.2023  ·  #95
Quote by Paul mcg

How much solar power do you have Dave? We have 200w solar and find it sufficient for one litium battery we have been out for 3 days last time and never went below 70% on the same kind of power draw 😁


200 w , I think it's enough too , it'll have to be as that's all the room I have 😃
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 25.03.2023  ·  #96
A couple of pictures of the transition from Lead to lithium.
30kg of weight saved and 65% more power reserve

The available power of the 2X100ah lead acid batteries to 50% Depth Of Discharge was about 100ah
The available power of the 4X3.2vX200ah LiFePO4 to 10% DoD is about 165ah, Specs say minimum rated capacity:180Ah-190Ah

At the end of the three-night away St Patrick's weekend (with mostly overcast weather with a bit of sunshine) where all the usual stuff including heating and the microwave were used as required the LiFePO4's never dropped below 80% DoD and were back up to 98% after a two-hour drive home.

I choose the LiFePO4 units and the Daly BMS based on excellent real-world recommendations by people purchasing for home storage of surplus output from solar.
The BMS Unit
The LiFePO4 Units


 


 
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 03.04.2023  ·  #97



For those of us that like to tinker , we haven't got to use the van much lately so I have set up an off site profile as recommended in the vlog .
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.12.2023  ·  #98
A quick update ...... nothing to report as far as the battery is concerned it worked well over a busy season.... I have however encountered a problem.... just bare with on this

A fully charged lithium battery will put out about 14v and hold that for a long time ,with the power curve of lithium it will only drop to 12v if it is very low ,which in my case is hardly ever , Most 12v items designed for motorhome use have a tolerance of +/- 5v so this is not an issue .
But the problem I have encountered is with 12v items that are not designed fo RV use in my case some LED strip lights and a Huawei router both come with 12v transformers , I have bypassed the transformer and wired them directly to my battery with a 5a fused this was never a problem with lead acid @13v. But both the LED light controller and router have stoped working, for the record the fuses have not blown , My conclusion can only be that the unregulated 14v has fried something in both units .
Has anyone experienced anything like this or have I just been unlucky if so is there a work around other than retaining the transformer and running them through the inverter , I will need to replace the router and would prefer not to fry the new one !
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.12.2023  ·  #99
I use One of these to protect equipment designed for 12v from a stabilised 230v ac power supply (house stuff). IMHO such stuff is not designed to survive the range of voltage found in 12v supply systems.

I will only use 12v stuff directly connected to the mh 12v system if it comes with a 12v plug lead as well as a 230v plug lead. I can then be sure it's designed to cope with the range of voltages between a battery under load and charging
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.12.2023  ·  #100
I'm also thinking about changing to Lithium. At the moment I have a 2016 Citroen Rely.

I have a vehicle sensitive relay charging the leisure battery from the vehicle battery when driven. Will this be able to charge a Lithium? Or will I need to fit a B2B unit.

My mains charger is a Sargent EC160 Management System ( https://cosycampers.ie/sargent…black.html ) Will this charge the Lithium? Or will I need to get a different mains charger to fully charge the lithium battery.

I have a 100w solar panel on the roof going to a vechline LM series solar power intelligent pv controller ( https://cdn1.ox-resources.net/…A-srne.pdf ) . Will this be able to charge the lithium to 100%
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.12.2023  ·  #101
Quote by Roulston1008

I'm also thinking about changing to Lithium. At the moment I have a 2016 Citroen Rely.

I have a vehicle sensitive relay charging the leisure battery from the vehicle battery when driven. Will this be able to charge a Lithium? Or will I need to fit a B2B unit.

My mains charger is a Sargent EC160 Management System ( https://cosycampers.ie/sargent…black.html ) Will this charge the Lithium? Or will I need to get a different mains charger to fully charge the lithium battery.

I have a 100w solar panel on the roof going to a vechline LM series solar power intelligent pv controller ( https://cdn1.ox-resources.net/…A-srne.pdf ) . Will this be able to charge the lithium to 100%


I've recently purchased One of these to replace my existing B2B and MPPT solar charge controller which don't have Lithium settings and weren't charging the Lithium batteries correctly.
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.12.2023  ·  #102
Quote by baguette

I use One of these to protect equipment designed for 12v from a stabilised 230v ac power supply (house stuff). IMHO such stuff is not designed to survive the range of voltage found in 12v supply systems.

I will only use 12v stuff directly connected to the mh 12v system if it comes with a 12v plug lead as well as a 230v plug lead. I can then be sure it's designed to cope with the range of voltages between a battery under load and charging


Thank you I was wondering would a stabiliser be the answer , yes I would agree (HOUSE STUFF ) doesn't like the fluctuations but when we were dealing with lead acid these fluctuations were not as pronounced as they are with lithium so the 230v STUFF lasted a bit longer ,
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 07.12.2023  ·  #103
Quote by Roulston1008

I'm also thinking about changing to Lithium. At the moment I have a 2016 Citroen Rely.

I have a vehicle sensitive relay charging the leisure battery from the vehicle battery when driven. Will this be able to charge a Lithium? Or will I need to fit a B2B unit.

My mains charger is a Sargent EC160 Management System ( https://cosycampers.ie/sargent…black.html ) Will this charge the Lithium? Or will I need to get a different mains charger to fully charge the lithium battery.

I have a 100w solar panel on the roof going to a vechline LM series solar power intelligent pv controller ( https://cdn1.ox-resources.net/…A-srne.pdf ) . Will this be able to charge the lithium to 100%


None of your present set up seems to have lithium settings so I would proceed with cation , the sargent unit would charge a lithium battery but not very well , again your solar controller seems to be a basic PWM controller it would charge but as it dosn't seem to be able to change the charge settings ideally would need to be swapped for a MPPT controller with lithium setting , the one I would be most concerned about is your "vehicle sensitive relay" Im not sure what you mean by this but split charge relays are not recommended of lithium batteries some will say they can damage the vehicle alternator some say not , I wouldn't want you to be the one to find out ! I haven't fitted a BtoB or a relay , just rely on the solar to keep things toped up.
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 08.12.2023  ·  #104
The original equipment 230v battery charger hasn't been mentioned.
The one fitted in my mh doesn't have a Lithium setting and it's trickle/maintenance charge phase is not recommended for Lithium batteries, which do not suffer from self discharge like lead acid ones do. I leave mine turned off and rely on solar to keep the lithium batteries charged even when on ehu. The Renogy unit I've just got should provide all the recharging needed with its B2B and MPPT functionality.
When on ehu the draw from the batteries would only be from the 12v stuff and the solar should cover that. When driven the combined output of the B2B and solar shoud quickly (at the 30ah combined charging rate) bring the batteries back to 100% if the solar alone hadn't kept up while parked up.
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 08.12.2023  ·  #105
Is there a problem charging lithium below 0 Deg ,
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 08.12.2023  ·  #106
Quote by eirebus

Is there a problem charging lithium below 0 Deg ,


Charging a Lithium battery in ambient temperatures below 0°C / 32°F must be avoided. The reason for this is it may potentially damage the battery and / or reduce its lifespan.
The optimum ambient temperature for charging a Lithium battery is +5°C to +45°C / 41°F to 113°F.
Lots more info HERE
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 08.12.2023  ·  #107
Quote by eirebus

Is there a problem charging lithium below 0 Deg ,

As baguette has said they should not be charged below 0c but can be discharged well below 0c , its worth noting that most good batteries will have a Low temp cutout of as part of the battery management system (BMS) so won't allow charging , if you have a battery without low temp cutout or your unsure you need to be careful this time of year , I pull the fuse on the solar when Im not going to use the van for a few weeks this time of year .
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 08.12.2023  ·  #108
Some lithiums have a low temperature protection, but not all do. Mine has, but if the temp is 4 C or less, I run diesel heater for 20 minutes to be extra sure, handy having the boiler is next to the batteries You can safely discharge lithiums down to -25C.
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 08.12.2023  ·  #109
Quote
your unsure you need to be careful this time of year , I pull the fuse on the solar when Im not going to use the van for a few weeks this time of year .


That's what I did as I'm unsure, so better to be safe than sorry
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 10.12.2023  ·  #110
Quote


I've recently purchased One of these to replace my existing B2B and MPPT solar charge controller which don't have Lithium settings and weren't charging the Lithium batteries correctly.


Do you have this installed yet? I looks like a nice piece of kit.
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 11.12.2023  ·  #111
Quote by Roulston1008

Quote


I've recently purchased One of these to replace my existing B2B and MPPT solar charge controller which don't have Lithium settings and weren't charging the Lithium batteries correctly.


Do you have this installed yet? I looks like a nice piece of kit.


It's a project for the coming week. Must be done soon, before we head to Spain Mid-january.
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 11.12.2023  ·  #112
Quote by baguette

Quote by Roulston1008

Quote


I've recently purchased One of these to replace my existing B2B and MPPT solar charge controller which don't have Lithium settings and weren't charging the Lithium batteries correctly.


Do you have this installed yet? I looks like a nice piece of kit.


It's a project for the coming week. Must be done soon, before we head to Spain Mid-january.


@eirebus
Colin/Dave, What sort of controller have you in the van from the Manufacturer, Fitted in my van is a Schaudt Elektroblock EBL220,and it's recommended to only fit a Schaudt LRM 1218, which integrates with the Block, but it doesn't support Lithium.
I presume yours have a similar control block, how are you working around this.?
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 11.12.2023  ·  #113
I have an EBL 220 also , I set it to Gel , I run the solar directly to the battery using a Voltronic 250 MPPT controller ( there's bigger ones ) that supports lithium charging , I thought the Schault LRM supported lithium , Schault are very expensive
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 11.12.2023  ·  #114
The equipment in my mh is CBE which seems not to have the sensitivities of Schault equipment.

The reason I've gone for charging equipment with a LiFePo4 profile is that none of the various Lead Acid profiles seem to fully charge the Lithium batteries.
Perhaps this is because the charging units set to a Lead Acid profile 'see' the Lithium batteries as fully charged before they are actually fully charged and go into a low current topping up or float charge. Lithium batteries take a constant current and constant voltage right through the charging process until they reach a fully charged condition and then the charger shuts down.

Well, that's my tuppence worth, perhaps an accredited expert will come along with a better explanation.
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 12.12.2023  ·  #115
Just after taking a big step towards fitting lithium and ordering a Renogy12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery and a RenogyDCC30S 12V 30A Dual Input DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT. They seen to have good deals at the moment. So my thoughts are this DCC30S 12V 30A Dual Input DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT will charge my lithium battery from the vehicle battery. So all I need is to connect the vehicle battery to a normal battery charger which should keep the vehicle battery charged which should power the Renogy unit which should fully charge the lithium battery. Or am I missing something?
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 12.12.2023  ·  #116
Quote by Roulston1008

Just after taking a big step towards fitting lithium and ordering a Renogy12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery and a RenogyDCC30S 12V 30A Dual Input DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT. They seen to have good deals at the moment. So my thoughts are this DCC30S 12V 30A Dual Input DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT will charge my lithium battery from the vehicle battery. So all I need is to connect the vehicle battery to a normal battery charger which should keep the vehicle battery charged which should power the Renogy unit which should fully charge the lithium battery. Or am I missing something?


The specs say the unit will only start taking charge from the starter battery if it senses its voltage is more than 13.2V, for 15 seconds. Your plan sounds like it should work once your normal battery charger brings your starter battery to >13.2v. The drop out will happen if the starter battery drops below 12.7v
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 14.01.2024  ·  #117
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 15.01.2024  ·  #118
First option,if the modification wasn't too difficult, why do you need 200ah , most van's getting by on 100/120ah and easier to charge one battery
Other option is to buy the cell's and make your own size battery pack
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 15.01.2024  ·  #119
Have a look back at my post #96
I did a self build LiFePO4 battery and put in a stand alone high end BMS
The cells i used are rated at 200ah but in reality they do between 160 and 180 in real life.
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Re: Fitting Lithium

 ·  Posted: 15.01.2024  ·  #120
200 the way to go, especially if you are off grid during the winter - heating, TV etc.
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