Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

 
 
 
 
 
 
RTV
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Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 04.09.2017  ·  #1
Good day ladies and gents,

I'm happy as a hippo with my new (to me) MH! Brought her all the way down from Mayo on Saturday and she cruised all the way down with no problems whatsoever.

For a 5 birth it's surprisingly easy to drive too, not bother at all. And yes, I'm a first timer!

Now, to the topic of this thread...

She came with a "Carver Cascade 2" water heater, I turn it own and I can hear her clicking but after a few seconds it stops and the "alarm" light comes on the panel.

I tested it with both gas and mains, water is running just fine out of the sink in the bathroom and kitchen. I'm normally a hands on kind of guy but I don't want to be messing around with gas to be honest.

Would you guys have anyone to recommend around Cork to look at it? Or any easy troubleshooting steps to follow without having to mess about with gas lines, etc???


Thanks for reading and looking forward for your helpful advise :D


Cheers,
Rami


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 04.09.2017  ·  #2
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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 04.09.2017  ·  #3
Remove 4 outside screws on heater cover.
Now remove 2 screws on aluminium cover on inside.
You will now see the burner.
Make sure gas is off.
To the right of the burner there is 2 screws on the main assembly, they are 30mm apart.
Screw them out.
The burner will now pull out, it will take a bit of fiddling as the control module is attached to it and it's a tight fit.
Watch the little 'o' ring on the pipe attachment, remove it so you don't loose it.

The flame tube in the burner will have collapsed and the end plate will be gone.
It can be repaired easily with someone with gas welding and fabrication skills or get a new one to replace it.

Replace all in reverse of above remembering to refit the o ring.
Turn gas on, test system with clean water and washing up liquid to check for leaks.

It's actually quite an easy repair, or get an engineer if unsure of doing it yourself.


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 04.09.2017  ·  #4
JJF, awesome. Thanks for your quick reply... the more I read about it, it seems to be handy enough. So I'll give it a go and see how it goes.

Being that it's probably as old as the MH (circa 1995) I might be looking at replacing the parts if they're not too expensive.

I'll report back as soon as I have news :)


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 04.09.2017  ·  #5
Have you gas in cylinder?
Is hob and fridge working ok?

Alarm may sound when voltage drops or no gas


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 04.09.2017  ·  #6
Rami, before you gut the heater check out ebay for a replacement 12 volt element. The element has its own 12 volt transformer from the 220v hook up. You will need the model number which should be on a sticker on the housing of the heater, may have to slip off the polystyrene insulation. The other issue that I found was the spark probe that lights the gas burn may have move and is now throwing the spark at the housing of the heater not the gas burner. I had a carver water heater in a caravan some time ago and the lime in the water corrodes the 12 volt element. Check the voltage into the element to rule out a broken conection or blown fuse and then a continuous test on the 2 wires in the element. If there is no continuous conection in the element, the element is banjaxed.


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 04.09.2017  ·  #7
Quote by mad max

Have you gas in cylinder?
Is hob and fridge working ok?

Alarm may sound when voltage drops or no gas


Yes, gas is OK. Probably not full bottle but surely enough to run hob without any issues.

Quote by Thorn123

Rami, before you gut the heater check out ebay for a replacement 12 volt element. The element has its own 12 volt transformer from the 220v hook up. You will need the model number which should be on a sticker on the housing of the heater, may have to slip off the polystyrene insulation. The other issue that I found was the spark probe that lights the gas burn may have move and is now throwing the spark at the housing of the heater not the gas burner. I had a carver water heater in a caravan some time ago and the lime in the water corrodes the 12 volt element. Check the voltage into the element to rule out a broken conection or blown fuse and then a continuous test on the 2 wires in the element. If there is no continuous conection in the element, the element is banjaxed.


Thanks bud, I couldn't start looking at it today as I was trying to do the service on the van and I was welcomed with a completely stripped sump drain bolt (oh, joy of joys!). So yeah, will a lot of tender love, WD40 and vicegrips eventually I got it out but now I need a new one of course...

But I think I have enough information to at least diagnose if it's a matter of supply (gas or electrical) or something within the heater itself.

Hoping to be able to get my hands on it tomorrow and let you guys know what's the verdict :)


Also found this post on another forum which has a lot of detailed info which might be useful for the next guy (hopefully)

SOURCE

The Carver Cascade 2 is a 9 litre storage water heater, which when running on gas will heat the water to 65deg c in about 45 minutes. On 240V mains assuming it has this facility, the time can be somewhat longer or shorter depending on the wattage (630w 3amp to 840w 5amp) of the element fitted, you can use both gas and electric together for faster times.
To operate the gas there is a wall switch or a switch within a main control panel, either way both have three lights green, amber and red. When switched on the green lights, (water tank must be full, i.e. water coming from hot taps), if it stays on after about 8 seconds then the gas has lit and all is well. If the green is joined by the red then you may have a problem, but if the gas bottle has just been changed then air in the pipes will have to be bled through by repeating the above 2 or 3 times. Once lit, and it should light without any pops and bangs, (this would indicate it needs a service), the heater looks after itself and gives constant hot water. Any problems will cause it to shut down safely and show the red light. Forget the amber light, it's to show low voltage and won't light unless the voltage is so low the heater and everything else packed up long since, though you may notice it 'flash' as the switch is turned on or off.
The 240v immersion heater if fitted is totally separate, and lies behind a white plastic box on the inboard end of the water tank. It is controlled by a switch, often close by and at floor level, but again sometimes as part of a remote control panel. The switch has a red light to show it's 'on', not that it's working, this will be determined by the water getting hot. If it does not then it may have 'tripped' Two types exist, early circa 1990 are non-re-settable but are repairable. Later models have a Red button on the end of the plastic box which is sometimes behind a little flap. Switch off mains, and press to reset.
Other faults concerning the gas side very often come down to the 'Burner Module'. This handy little unit contains the burner, gas valve and all the electronics which control it and is accessible from behind the cover outside of the van. In the event things go wrong it's a 5 minute job to replace it, with a new or serviced exchange unit. One other safety device is a wax filled 'fusible' plug, this again is behind the outer cover and shows itself as a 13 mm nut set in the fins above the burner. The wax will melt if things get too hot allowing hot water from the tank to spray over the burner and put the flame out. This will render things safe but will require a new module because it's control circuitry is faulty. However given if the fuse 'blows' without the water apparently getting to hot then replacing the plug will be sufficient. The point to note here is that over time the wax in the plug degrades or the threads leak, at the very least allowing water to seep onto the burner causing it to rust and eventually will still require replacement of the whole burner module.
Further problems that come to light in spring is the discovery of frost damage to the water tank, the non-return valve which is part of the cold water inlet and other plastic fittings. Failing to drain the heater when there is a chance of temperatures dropping below freezing can be very expensive to repair and should be avoided by removing the drain bung and allowing the heater to drain completely. Later models have a valve above the drain hole in the top left corner of the flue cowl, these have a 'toggle' showing that when turned a ΒΌ in any direction will allow air into the tank and assist the draining. Older models still have the valve but the flue cowl needs to be removed and the valve end pulled to open it, in this case opening all taps in the van will do much the same thing. It is most important that the drain bung is then only placed back into the hole and not screwed in, any water left in the system can then drain away.
Frost damage to the tank will be obvious by the leaking water from the damaged seal, the damaged non-return valve quite often will prevent water coming from the hot taps although the cold water flow will be fine. Other fittings are often cracked by the pressure of the frozen water and will leak on refilling the system.



Cheers,
Rami


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 04.09.2017  ·  #8
Sounds like that you're on the ball. Best of luck. Make sure that your first trip away leds to a reward of good food washed down with a few pints for your efforts.


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 06.09.2017  ·  #9
Well lads, happy days!!!

It was actually pretty straight forward!!!

Turned everything off (gas/water/battery), I took the plastic cover from the outside ventilation, then the metal cover and sure enough, everything had a little bit of rust everywhere...

Spent some time wire brushing everything, made sure that all the wholes where open, I also cleaned and adjusted the position of the spark (comparing to photos in google), vacuum through everything and a little wipe (because, why not?).

Checked that the tank had water on it letting a little bit out through the half turn drainage, closed all up, turned gas/water/battery back on, checked that I had water on the bathroom kitchen, there was gas on the hob so I gave it the world...

She lighted right up!!!!!! 15' mins later and the water was already warm, 15' more and it was nice and hot, so I call that a total success!!

With the victory on my shoulder I decided to tackle the fridge as well which was also giving me a little bit of grief to start up on gas. I had to take the fridge out, which was handy enough, disconnected the 12 and 2220v plugs, the gas line, and after a few bolts the fridge came right out. Pretty much the same procedure, removing rust with the wire brush, making sure all the ports were clear and with a small needle I made sure that the jet was flowing OK (I think it was blocked and probably causing the issue).

Now the fridge also fires right up on the second click!!!

As I said, happy out, 3 hours of work being extra careful with everything and we're now ready to go out for the first time!! Very exciting times :D


Cheers for the tips, much appreciated.
Rami


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 06.09.2017  ·  #10
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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 06.09.2017  ·  #11
Great news Rami.
Since you mentioned that a gas jet was possibly blocked, butane gas is known to cause that. Propane gas is much cleaner to burn and easier to light. It might be worth to check your gas type.


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 07.09.2017  ·  #12
Quote by Thorn123

Great news Rami.
Since you mentioned that a gas jet was possibly blocked, butane gas is known to cause that. Propane gas is much cleaner to burn and easier to light. It might be worth to check your gas type.


Thanks, I think it's indeed butane but I'll double check. Will it be a straight swap to a propane tank? Probably will need a new regulator too, but other than that?


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 07.09.2017  ·  #13
Both butane and propane cyclinders are the same conection. Most people buy butane because it 5% cheaper.
Find the busiest hardware store around because you may find is difficult to swap the old empyt cyclinder, the busier the place ,the less questions.
The regulator, if it's working I would inclined to leave it but if you doubt it, maybe change it.
One last thing, find the lowest point in the gas piping around the camper. Disconnect both ends and blow compressed air in one end and watch the muck coming out the other end. The dirt usually settles in the lowest point of the system and it only after repressurising the system (changing to a new cyclinder ) that the dirt gets driven into the appliance.


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 07.09.2017  ·  #14
Butane is fed at a different pressure to propane, If you have a standard butane regulator then you need to change it


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 08.09.2017  ·  #15
I appreciate the info lads!!

I have a shop nearby that will be able to help me and guide me, I rang them yesterday and I explained my newbie status and after laughing a little bit, they said I quote:

- "ah, you're grand... bring the camper and we'll sort you out"

So that's it... no idea how much I have left on the current tank so since I'll be only doing short trips for now I'll just let it run dry and pay these guys a visit (Cork Gas).

We'll see how it goes :)

Cheers,
Rami


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Re: Someone in Cork to look at my water heater

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Posted: 08.09.2017  ·  #16
Quote by Ally

Butane is fed at a different pressure to propane, If you have a standard butane regulator then you need to change it



Since 2002 both Propane and Butane are fed at the same pressure of 30mb and all appliances are made for that standard since, so if the MH is newer than 2002 the existing permanently fixed regulator should do both types of gas.
If the MH is older or has older appliances they will need to be re-jetted to accept the 'new' 30mb pressure standard or a suitable old standard regulator will need to be sourced

One of the reasons why MH's are delivered set up for Propane is that MH's, unlike caravans, are an all year round use vehicle and Butane 'freezes' in low temperatures.


In the South propane is available in both Jumbo (clip on) and 28.2 LH connection type bottles.
If the MH currently uses a Jumbo (clip on) type regulator it's just a matter of seeking out a Propane with that type of connection.

BTW note the difference between the Jumbo ADAPTER and the Jumbo REGULATOR which is rated at 29mb, which is 1mb less than the standard for MH's though it shouldn't make a significant difference to appliances designed to run at the 30mb standard.


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