Radiator Flush

Where's the thermostat?!

 
 
 
 
 
 
killiand
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Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #1
Hi all!

so a number of weeks ago, we noticed water under the van when we parked up.. long story short and skipping the investigation stages!! found the leak which was due to a loose jubilee clip coming from the hosepipe on the left hand side of the block. Considering the system was drained - I thought, no better time to do a rad flush! got the 5 litres of blue coolant and holts 2 stage rad flush.. flushed the system through added the flush and followed those instructions... flushed the system through again and we were onto stage two..

but the second stage flush refers to removing the thermostat and flushing water around the system through the housing of the thermostat and I was wondering.. Where the bloomin' thing is!! Any help much appreciated :) hoping to get through stage two tonight and then get away for our first overnight since march this weekend :D


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #2
Since no one else has replied, here goes.
I believe that the housing that has the thermostat, is on the right hand side of the engine. It is the housing that has several hoses attached.
This is from memory, of a mate that had to replace his thermostat. I stress, that I've never owned a Ducato, myself, but many years ago, I did see my mate change his thermostat.
Hope that might help.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #3
Thanks for that Mick! that does indeed make some sense! Although it also makes me wonder is it worth pulling out - as the only reason is to pump the second bottle of radiator flush around... and I fear the risk of damaging is greater than the benefit of flushing from that part around!

Thanks for the response!


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #4
I agree, as long as you make sure that it's up to running temperature, so that the thermostat is open, I think it should be ok.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #5
Killian, I wouldn't bother to pull out the stat...... it's only to aid a quicker flush.
Put in the rad flush, run till cooling fan cuts in a few times (stat is open when fan runs) and drain and flush out with clean water.
Fill with coolant mixed as appropriate.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #6
Good news and bad news... The good news is - the flush DEFINITELY worked...

The bad news is there's a pin hole in the metal tubing that runs behind the engine :( of course - it waited till is out 5 litres of coolant in it! That's our first weekend away in 4 months shot :(

So on to solutions - I'm assuming that the flush lifted an old rad weld job BUT is that possible? Or does that only work in the radiator itself?

Would it work again... OR is it possible to put a weld on the outside?!

Thanks...!


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #7
Pin hole will be sorted with rad weld,
Get away and enjoy it killian,

I had an auld terrano for bringing home turf from the bog, the rad had a small leak and i couldnt be bothered to take it out so just threw in a bottle of rad weld,
2 years later i drove into a bush whilst turning and a branch of a tree put another hole in the rad, within a minute it sealed and i remembered the rad weld,
Tis mighty stuff


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #8
Cheers!! Doesn't matter that the hole is in the piping at the back no??


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #9
All the better as it wont flex so rad weld will hold better if ya get what i mean


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #10
I used the bottle of radiator repair liquid that looks like it has copper flakes in it, it comes in a clear bottle with about 100ml . Put it in the car radiator about 6 years ago and have never looked back. It may have been around 12 quid for the bottle and have been carrying a spare one in the boot since in case I should need it. I think I will transfer it to the van to be used in an emergency. Beat it into the radiator and get away for the weekend Killian.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 01.08.2017  ·  #11
Killiand,
Try and get your mitts on the "Holts Radweld Professional"..... the red bottle, not the blue or the black bottle.
Should be available in any good motofactors that the trade use....... believe me the professional one is probably the best out there
Have used it many times and it works.



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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 02.08.2017  ·  #12
If all fails cut the pipe and put a rad hose in between, secure with jubilee clip also make sure you have the right anti freeze for that engine because you have cast iron heads plus alloy heads


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Radiator Flush

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Posted: 02.08.2017  ·  #13
Quote by big LIam

If all fails cut the pipe and put a rad hose in between, secure with jubilee clip also make sure you have the right anti freeze for that engine because you have cast iron heads plus alloy heads


This is probably the better fix, you have just cleaned the whole system, why put gunge back in, that its very job is to block small holes.
Best to replace the pipe .when you can if there is one small hole the pipe is failing.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 02.08.2017  ·  #14
Killiand, if can put a jubilee clip around the pipe with a liitle bit of rubber,i.e. a patch for a tube or similar ,over the hole ,then a bit of thin metal bent to cover over that, secure in place with the jubilee. I never was a fan of radweld only in a emergency as it can block your rad and lead to overheating. But you will need to replace your pipe sometime as the metal is getting thin at that spot thus the drip.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 03.08.2017  ·  #15
Quote

make sure you have the right anti freeze for that engine because you have cast iron heads plus alloy heads


Can I check - which one is correct?? last time i asked in the garage i was given the pink one.. so I asked for the pink one this time and he swore blind I needed the blue... !!

Quote

If all fails cut the pipe and put a rad hose in between,


I think it's going to be too close to the joint/junction of 2 or three hoses that come from it to cut and replace with the rad hose unfortunately!

Which brings me to...
Quote

Best to replace the pipe .when you can if there is one small hole the pipe is failing.


Might be time for a trip down to East Coast campers to see if they have any replacements!


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 09.08.2017  ·  #16
So - I've removed the reservoir, and the air duct for the fans inside (just to make space to get in!)..

Can anyone tell me anything about the jubilee clips with a plastic cover over what I assume to be the screw?? There's two on one of the pipes and I can't get anywhere with them... :-/


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 09.08.2017  ·  #17
Cut them off and replace with new Killian, when you cut them the size is usually printed near the screw,

Tin snips is handy for cutting them


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 09.08.2017  ·  #18
Cheers! :)


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 10.08.2017  ·  #19
well, here is the offending piece!!

Took a long time to get it out, despite there only being two nuts holding it in...

the top bolt was twisting in it's housing along with the nut I was turning. As it transpired - the bolt and nut came out of the housing - not sure if this was meant to be the case, but I can see where it would make some sense..

The bottom nut came off not too bad, 13mm ratchet socket with an extension arm was just the tool for the job! But the fun really kicked in when I'd removed both nuts and the adjoining rad hose, and there was still no way to get the pipe out because of it's shape and the area around it! I ended up removing another piece that was directly below it and coming straight out of the engine block which gave me the space! on now to try and find a replacement....!
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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 10.08.2017  ·  #20
Would it be worth your while to paint the new one with hammerite or some kind of heat resistant paint to stop the decay


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spare parts

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Posted: 10.08.2017  ·  #21
Hi Killiand. if you have any trouble getting replacement part, www ducatoparts.com could be worth a
look, they specialize in 82 onwards new and used spares for Ducato.Boxer and jumper(Relay). They are in Holland but no trouble as their site is in english and no problem for delivery.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #22
Thanks nilrac! Have popped them an email! East coast came in at €50 used or €95 new... But steeper than I expected! Have sent a query to Ducatoparts and will do a bit of fleabay hunting later :)


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #23
Killiand, been thinking , If the pipe is sound and just rusted in one spot why not get a brazed patch put on,after all its just metal.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #24
you've got my attention :)

I'm not good with materials and what can and can't be done... do you think the cost to get someone to do that would be greater than €45? Or is it something I could manage myself? Have an Arc welder (love doing things myself, but am very much in the early learning stage!) ... but it's a Mig i'd need is it?

** edit- the reason I say €45, is that ducatoparts.com came back to say the part is €25 and delivery €20... so €50 cheaper from there than wicklow... :-|


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #25
I would go to an engineering shop, i.e. somewhere where they weld and repair plant etc or find someone who works in one, and get them to look at it and give you a price, I would think no more than 20 or less euros. The plant boys are well used with this type of repair.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #26
Thanks a mill! :)

Also - I got my pricing wrong, €25 for second hand versus €50 second hand...

Will have a look in nearby shops and see what they say! Cheers!


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #27
If you want to post it up to us I'll have it repaired in our workshop Killiand..... sandblasted, brazed, pressure tested & painted.......
Cost you nowt but post !


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #28
that sounds awesome!! are you sure? !


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #29
Quote by killiand

that sounds awesome!! are you sure? !


Yep, PM on the way


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Radiator Flush

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Posted: 11.08.2017  ·  #30
Quote by JJF

Quote by killiand

that sounds awesome!! are you sure? !


Yep, PM on the way


No your talking about real family :up:


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 12.08.2017  ·  #31
Glad to see that you got sorted, Killiand you could not be in better hands. People might like to make note of the dutch firm as they also specialize in old motorhomes bits as well as mechanical. This could be handy for people with older left hand drive continental models as some parts are handed also body parts that are hard to get over here


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 15.08.2017  ·  #32
All sorterd and back in the post today.
few pics below:




Pipe as received



Sandblasted & cleaned up



Pressure tested, 0.1 Bar showed up the problem clearly



Area completely brazed around using oxy-acetylene and brass/flux filler rod.
Re-tested to 1 Bar after repair and all solid.



Lick of paint to prevent corrosion


Killiand, try and get your hands on some of this, it has excellent anti-corrosion properties and should prevent further corrosion from the interior outwards. 2.5 litres should sort it.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 15.08.2017  ·  #33
That is absolutely amazing work!! thank you so much!! I will do indeed, do you add that to a full system of coolant or is it a mix with water??

will i need to get a gasket seal for re-fitting the part do you think? there was possible evidence of one having been there...!

Thanks an absolute million!!!


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 15.08.2017  ·  #34
Mix the coolant/antifreeze at 50:50 with water.

Yes, you'll need a gasket... I could have cut you one but it's already off in the post !
Any good Autofactors will have gasket paper, get the thicker stuff, .3 to .5 mm stuff and cut a gasket from it.
Clean both mating surfaces and add gasket and tighten up.

Pipe is structurally sound elsewhere.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 15.08.2017  ·  #35
Nice job Jon, A good welders work is like an oil painting, I always admire the skill, my attempts were always a bit pigeon sh.ty. On the corrosion topic, I did see on site earlier this year down in Spain where a motorhomer had to replace his six (three axle) alloy wheels . He had added a puncture solution to his wheels and it had attacked the alloy causing pin holes in the metal. It turned out that it was ok for steel rims but not alloy.


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Radiator Flush

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Posted: 15.08.2017  ·  #36
Well done Jon, lovely bit of work. :up:


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 22.08.2017  ·  #37
So... full of enthusiasm having received the part last wednesday (:D ) I set about fitting the pip back in...

Picked up the prestone coolant too!

after a lot of squeezing through the tight spaces, and dropping the nuts and washers umpteen times into the engine bay abyss, I finished, filled it.. and watched it all spill out the poxy bottom again... :(

Late in the evening and covered in oil/dirt I called it a day!

Chance phonecall with my retired mechanic uncle.... and I learned - gasket paper should be damp, when applied.. ! oops. The one I had used came out cracked and ruined as if it had served time between the joint. So I finally got a chance yesterday to get back at it.. (think I could get the pipe in and out with my eyes shut now!) and there was STILL a persistent drip coming down into the prepared basins below.

from what I could see - there was a spout out the back of the engine that went into a rad hose (narrow) and it had to be removed to fit the pipe out. When replacing this - i didn't get a good enough seal where the jubillee clip was!

it was still dry an hour after i finished last night - and the proof will be in the pudding this evening when I get home from work.. so fingers crossed!!


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 22.08.2017  ·  #38
Stay with it Killiand, you'll get it beat in the end.
Gasket paper OK dry, but needs to be the thicker one..... I use shellac for jointing paper gaskets on metal surfaces.
Hopefully you will get all going now.


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 22.08.2017  ·  #39
Killiand, the price of an education in motor repairs, is the cost of hardship and finding out wether the drip on your nose is sweat or something else.
I am glad that you are getting sorted and are letting us know about the (bruised knuckles) process involved.
Get on the road, drive a hour or so, find a skin full of your favourite tipple and then snore your t?ts off, as a reward of your efforts.
Malcolm


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Re: Radiator Flush

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Posted: 25.08.2017  ·  #40
Well, compliments of JJF, we're away for our first night since March for a cheeky and simple overnighter one hour from home, in Laois!! Hoping to head to Glenburrow forest trail tomorrow for a nice 5k walk! Wanted to do a short stint just to make sure everything was in check!

Still running with just water in the system.. And she performed well the whole way down (60-65KPH as was on google maps favourite type of roads!!) regulated in and around the 90 degrees, never above but sometimes below. The ONLY thing that I don't understand.... is there was NO heat coming back into the cab when i turned the heaters on.. Totally puzzled.. Any thoughts welcome = as I'm not sure where to start on that one!!


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